Ken

951Racer, you're right, it was all me. I was overwhelmed and I suck. I'm just trying to work to fix that and I'm not placing blame anywhere but on myself.

adrial

Its OK Ken, I suck too. But this thread will hopefully help me suck a little less when I finally get to Limerock.

So how was the extra 200RWHP?

Rick DeMan

Hi Adrial,

I think "SUCK" is a pretty harsh word these days....

More politicly correct could possibly be........"Apex hitting challenged"???

BTW, your crank is drilled and now being ballanced......you should have it next week..

http://65.215.66.59/deman/index.php

Ken

Not too shabby! It made passing(the few cars I actually got around) much easier. The throttle was pretty progessive too. As long as I was smooth rolling onto to it the boost built smoothly and didn't upset the car. It was different that I had imagined it would be.

So what's the ETA on finishing the car?

Geoffrey

TRACK REPORT FROM 3/31

COLD - WET - RAINY

Since almost everyone left in the afternoon, we ran open track. I logged 84 miles and I really like the MPSC tires in the rain.

The rain line is much less slippery than the dry line, at least until someone put down oil from "no name straight" to pit in after hitting the embankment.

jjguitarranch

I was flagging at turn 5 when that happened. It did get very cold toward the end of the day. I looked at it as a great opportunity to learn how to deal with adverse conditions. FWIW I was running with a new set of Bridgestone 750's that were great in the rain.

richard glickel

Geoffrey,

Good job! I told Lou that I felt you guys (HVR) ran a nice event. I was happy to help with your tech line. Can't do anything about the weather.

You drove very well on those new tires. From where I was flagging at Big Bend, I had a super view of your car coming down the straight, lights on in the rain, "rooster tail" trailing.

You were right, I did enjoy (some limited) sliding in the rain. It was easy to get the tail "wagging" on the slight incline starting up No Name Straight. During my second run, the track actually started to dry out and I could feel the pace picking up; but then the rains came again and after 1 hour of flagging and another 1 1/2 hours of sitting around, I was cold, wet and tired, so heading home was more attractive at that point than the open track.

I am going to try to get up to the Glen for HVR's advanced track day. See you soon.

Richard
'87 Carrera 3.6L widebody (faux "Carrera RS")

Geoffrey

Richard,

Thanks for the compliment, we run a fairly loose event so we can maximize people's enjoyment. I did get some great video and was still able to get 120 out of the main straight. And the best part was they weren't checking noise so I didn't get black flagged as usual.

Since we had white run group drivers running with us, I turned my lights on so they could more easily see a faster car approaching.

If you get a chance, definately go to the Glen for our open track event. It is so relaxed since you can drive when you want however much you want. I think I average about 300mi per day during that event. In fact, I go through a tank of fuel by lunch.

Z-man

Track report from April 1st (NNJR - day one)

Lots of open track, but lots of rain. I was haivng a BLAST with my Pirelli P-Zero C's. They have surprisingly fantastic grip!

There was that spin I had in the third run of the day: comeing out of Big Bend I got on the throttle just a wee bit more than I had grip. Back got a bit loose, and I started sliding-- nose towards the tire wall. I counter steered, and the back end came around the other way! Went off towards the outside of the turn (thankfully) backwards (not very comforting!) with both feet in. (What I've been taught ). Wound up about 20 feet off the track, stuck in the mud, but facing the 'right' way. The first tow truck got stuck beside me. Second one pulled me out and then the first tow truck.

Tomorrow looks to be a better day with less rain. Still had an awesome day today. It was nice running with some Rennlisters!

-Z-man.

JDeitz951

Hey Ken,

My first and only track event with an instructor was with JSR at Limerock last September. After a nerve racking first run (with spin out entering big bend too fast) I got much better and was signed off by the last run (of 4). Here's my secret:

You gotta drive first, learn second. Once you know the line, if the instructor distracts you, tune him out. If the hot car in your mirror distracts you, tune him out. If your gauges distract you, tune 'em out. You must focus on the track ahead at all times. Ask questions on the cool down lap and afterwards.

By the 4th run I was driving pretty fast and really smooth.

BigHeadDennis

Sorry, for the delay in responding, Ken, been a busy week. Spent Tuesday instructing at LRP with the BMW CCA. A bit cold, but sunny and gorgeous. Wonderful day.

You may not be exaggerating with the phrase, "a few yards". People are surprised at how far they are from a given point on the track. I often observe students missing points by full car widths or lengths, but think they are within a foot or two. Here's a hint - try to actually HIT THE APEX (at the curb) with the inside wheels of the car (pretend you're Schumacher). Why? Because, when you do hit it, you'll KNOW you've touched the apex. And the car doesn't get that upset, because the outside tires are doing that much more work. Some of my students get closer and closer each lap, but it takes a few to hit that curb. They are AMAZED that, initially, they were soooo far off.

As for the instructor grabbing the wheel, hmmm... that's been a topic of debate on this forum (and email list). Is it a good idea? Bad? My $.02? Bad idea. First off, it opens up a whole world of liability - what if the car spins or hits another car when the instructor is grabbing? Whose fault? As an instructor, the last thing I want to do is to annoy the student, or make him or her think that I'm going to catch his or her mistake by grabbing the wheel. I *will*, on the *cool-down lap or out-lap*, show him or her where I'd like to see the car by guiding the wheel, if need-be, but that's pretty rare, and ONLY with prior agreement.

And if you and your instructor aren't getting into sync, ask for a different instructor. No one will be (or should be) offended; I've seen it happen before. It's just one of those things. And did you fill out a response/evaluation form of your instructor?

One very good way to learn your way around the track is to get as many rides as possible. Ask your instructor, and if he or she is busy or unwilling, be shameless. Take your helmet and walk down the hot pit like a $2 *****, and beg rides. You'll get a ride in every instructor session. That's an additional 70 or so laps at Lime Rock, with someone who (theoretically at least) knows the line and how to control the car.

Lastly, I think the right approach should be - go for smoothness and understanding first, THEN and only then add speed. There are smooth and slow drivers and there are smooth and fast drivers, but there are no fast and unsmooth drivers. Do you need to go fast to learn the line? Nope. Figure out the line you want, THEN add speed.

Just my $.02....


vty,

--Dennis

Z-man

NNJR LR Day two report:
Dry weather, but a bit on the cold side (low 40's) overcast and windy all day.

Still a little concerned from yesterday's spin I had some trouble finding the rythmn through Big Bend and the approach to the esses. Not too bad, but definatley not as smooth as I've gone there before, especially in the early runs. By day's end, Big Bend was better.

The bad: I OVERBRAKE! This was especially evident in turn 3: I just have the hardest time carrying more speed into that turn. It's in my head, I know. Gotta work on that.

On a positive note: I grabbed two instructors who were willing to go out with me. Learned tons from both. Highlights of learning:
1. Uphill: While I thought I had that turn down pretty well, I was brought to a whole new level of understanding (and speed!) there. My approach was must faster than I had ever done there before.

Downhill: yep, I got it! Started doing that turn without brakes. It isn't as intimidating as you think! Of course, I was going much slower than the car is capable of handlling there, but it is a start. Now, I just have to carry more speed down the hill , and start bringing my 'back on throttle' point up the hill. Great fun!

Ken and Dave did extremely well! StephanG, another 944 board member run with me in White, and he was extracting as much as he could out of his little 2.5 liters of brute power!

Hopefully the others will chime in so you guys won't get bored with my play by plays...

-Zoltan.

When's my next event again!?!?!

BigHeadDennis

Congrats on "mastering" the downhill! That's great. As for overbraking, it's very, very common, so don't feel bad. As for turn 3, only fairly light braking is needed. Actually, the only "heavy" braking corner at LRP is entering big bend. Be careful if you DO overbrake in turn 3, as that is a very, very common place to suffer from trailing brake oversteer (TBO). If I had to guess as to the most common places people spin, in descending order, it'd be (1) braking for turn 3, (2) spinning to the outside or inside coming down the hill, (3) tracking out too far coming out of the esses, and (4) coming in way hot and screwing up trail braking into Big Bend. Because the left hander is taken with such a late apex, there is a tendency to delay braking, or carry braking past the turn-in point. Too much and the tail comes out, too abrupt lifting of the brake and the tail comes out. Oy.

Have fun tomorrow!

vty,

--Dennis

BigHeadDennis

Many clubs, including the BMW and Porsche club regions with whom I instruct, will not sign off a student to run solo after only one day at the track. Indeed, most students need 5+ days, at a minimum, before getting signed off. Had you had other track experience without an instructor? So, for those who aren't naturally blessed with huge talent, don't feel bad that you haven't been signed off to run solo after only four runs!

One little quibble... do NOT tune out the car in your mirror. As we always mention in the driver's meeting, if you see a car in your mirror, God did not put it there! Give a point-by at the earliest safe opportunity. Without that hot car in your mirror, you won't even HAVE the distraction!

vty,

--Dennis

Dave

Being at the beginning student level, I would have agreed completely with you on this a few days ago. At my first DE 18 months ago my instructor offered to sign me off midway through day 2, I didn't feel I was ready and wasn't sure the offer didn't have anything to do with the poor weekend he was having (he might have just wanted to go home). I have been told (several sources) that I have a very good feel for the car/balance that is probably due to several years of autox, but I wasn't consistantly hitting my marks and we hadn't even discussed braking yet. I declined the sign-off.
Thursday, as Zoltan mentioned, It rained at LRP. This was my 2nd DE (first was at another track) and it had been 19 months since my first DE. I went in thinking that with little autox seat time last year and so much time since my first DE, I was pretty much a complete noobie! Even in the rain, we drove the dry line, the thinking was that we weren't going to go fast enough to have a problem with the dry line (street tires help, very glad I left the r compounds at home, more noobie thinking). To my suprise, we were passing everything in sight without even trying to push it at all. A rainy day can be a great learning experience. Day 2 was dry, but still way too cold to get any heat into the tires. Having learned the dryline already we went out and pushed a little harder, I was suprised that there was never anyone in my mirror, especially with me driving a 944na. I was feeling pretty good about what I had learned but was still suprised when my instructor said he was going to sign me off after the first run group of the day, that was only 24 minutes on dry pavement.
This is getting long but here's the important thing for an instructor to remember. I learned a lot from a good instructor over the first 4 runs on wet pavement and 1 run on a dry track, but I think I learned almost as much during the 3 following run groups while alone in the car. The earlier advice to tune out the instructor is something I wouldn't want to try, if he/she feels a need to tell me something, I need to listen. OTOH, that time alone in the car gave me a chance to do what I had learned without the distraction of a conversation about the previous turn. I can tell when I missed the turn in by a mile (maybe some early students can't?) and make a mental note to try harder next lap, meanwhile I can concentrate on the next turn. Solitude also gave me the chance to check my dash more, I was able to look at my tach in the uphill and compare the merits of 3rd gear vs 4th, as a result I learned to carry a lot more speed through the turn (another 300 rpm in 4th) and I had similar results in the esses and the downhill as well (the left-hander and west bend felt pretty good so I concentrated on the points in between, big bend is still the weak link but I made some progress). Instruction is important, but so is practice. I learned a lot from my instructor via my ears and eyes but my seat was a good tool to learn from also.
As for mirrors, this can be taken too far. My first DE instructor left me with a few points that I needed to concentrate on in the future. One of the big issues was that I spent too much time worrying about what was behind me, he told me that if I spent more time thinking ahead and less behind I'd have my arm out the window less. He was right, of course, I only checked my mirrors once in a while but only 3 cars showed up in them all day.