Series 900

Geez Dennis, I thought that's exactly what I was doing last november first run group , you were right behind me :>)

Geoffrey

Well, it Wed went from 60 degrees and sunny to rain for the first outing of the season. I finally got a set of MPSCs that I will be trying so it will be interesting in the rain and probably fun to slide around the track.

I'll be the guy running the tech line, so definately say "Hi"

PS:
With all the rain we had last year it created a swamp on the outside of the left hander and a 996 went off in front of me and up to the bottom 1/3 of the door (over the door sil) in yuck.

BigHeadDennis

You were doing great, at least from what I saw before I passed you!

Ken

Z,

Thanks for the advice. I'll see what happens this week with the downhill. All I know now is that I was braking way to hard, so somethings gotta change. The technique of telling me off the track that I really don't need to brake there, but I should just touch the brakes to make myself comfortable(so that I feel like I'm slowing for the turn), only makes me more uncomfortable on the track because I know that I don't need to brake. I guess that's wierd, but that's just how I see it. I would have been better off not knowing I didn't need to brake there, but that's too late now. I guess if I just look at it like I'm settling the car with the brakes, and not actually braking that's better. Bah, I'm rambling now...

The car was ok. It was running rich all day and I didn't run in my last session because it started running really rough and blowing alot of smoke. I'm dragging it over to Powertech today so they can look at it on monday. It seems like it just needs a new tune on the Tec II. Overall I liked it, but I'm just down now hoping nothing major broke.

Z-man

Ken: I'd say keep with brushing the brakes. Remember: by braking, you will have weight transfer to the wrong, which will give you more grip and a crisper turn in. The brake/no brake at the downhill is a debate that has been around for a long time!

BTW: John Fitch, who helped design Lime Rock stated that the Downhill is most likely the hardest corner at the track, and that if you're not scaring yourself in that turn, you're probably not going fast enough!

-Z

Z-man

It was a beautiful day, and the first day in the past 14-15 days that I didn't have to go into work! (I do have to log in a little later, though....)

Anyway, I took the opportunity to day to prep my car for Lime Rock: put the shoulder belts in, slapped on my R-compounds, and did the 'bed in the brake' excersize. Even packed the car with my track gear!

I'm ready!!
-Z-man.

BigHeadDennis

Well, I don't know about the downhill being the toughest corner at Lime Rock, but it's almost certainly the scariest!

Ken, since I brought up the "brake/don't brake" issue, might I make a suggestion? Well, a comment first, then a suggestion.

First, don't feel bad about hitting the brakes. Every once in awhile, I lose my nerve and hit the brakes too, even with a few thousand laps under my belt there (left and right seat). It's perfectly natural, and nothing to be embarrased about. And it's MUCH better to brake and be comfortable, then to force yourself not to brake, freak out, miss the apex, and go off. So work yourself up to it, to the point YOU feel comfortable.

Also, like I said, the ability to take the downhill is entirely dependent upon a lot of factors. How much speed do you carry through West Bend? What sort of tires are you running? What's your power to weight ratio? How cold is it? Is there anything on the track? Are you trying to pass someone on the front straight? How much lift does your car produce? I don't think that a blanket statement "don't bother braking for the downhill" is applicable to everyone (though, it must be said, *I* was the one that made the blanket statement in the first place), though, IMHO, it's probably applicable to most 911 drivers.

Here's a method of making the downhill less intimidating. When you come out of West Bend, don't accelerate hard. Just modulate the throttle, keeping everything as neutral as possible. Watch your MPH (or tach if you prefer). Keep it neutral as you go under the bridge, and as you go down the hill. You'll be going much slower than usual, so you won't feel as urgent the need to brake. If you can hold the line, hitting the apex properly, and keeping the car TIGHT and not tracking out (the testing technique I mentioned in my initial post), this means you've got plenty of unused grip. On the next lap, add a couple of MPH (or another 200 RPM). Keep increasing until you feel the need to hit the brake. When you reach that point, keep doing laps at the speed at which you feel comfortable, then increase your speed again.

Does this make any sense?

vty,

--Dennis

Ken

Z and Dennis,

All your advice seems good. I'm trying to get ready as I'm going back Thursday and Friday of this week and I wanted to do some preperation so I know what to work on. The instructor I had last weekend seemed like a good driver, but not a great instructor. At one point, I asked him for reference points on the left hander, and he couldn't give them to me. He just said "I drive by feel". I ended up standing on the infield hill looking at the left hander for 45 minutes and got a feel for the right line with that. I couldn't find a great place to watch the downhill so I'm trying to picture everything in my head.

That seems like a good way to learn the downhill. At this point, I'm still not driving the correct line so I need to get that right first. I was worried about the lifting/braking/etc on the downhill so I never got a great feel for the line. I kept missing the apex by a few yards. I'll take the first couple sessions to just get myself on the right line and then I can pick up the speed.

So just shift into fourth, keep the car at a resonable speed and find the line. Sounds like a mission statement. Thanks guys! :bigwave:

Al P.

A few yards? I'm not sure who you were out there with but.....

If you want to get fast you need to be able to hit your marks plus or minus a few inches every time. Smooth, consistant, focused; speed will come. As they say this is not racing nor is it practice for racing you don't need to worry about the other cars (within reason) just drive your line, if you don't know where the line is the boys from NNJR will show you, listen to them they're all good.

Oh, for the left hander as you come out of Big Bend aim at the bathrooms, drift to the right side of the track wait for it to come to you, don't turn in early, hit the apex and hold it on the left side, don't lift, hard right, hit the right hander's apex and use the whole track to track out.

It was only mentioned once in this thread but Lime Rock is not individual corners connected by straights. Everything from Big bend to the diving turn is connected in some way. Lime Rock is an easy track to learn, not all that many turns but very difficult to master because each turn affects the other. Do west bend just right and you'll find yourself carrying a ton of speed into the diving turn

I'm not a very fast driver nor do I drive a fast car and I learned early on that if I wanted to get around any track particularly Lime Rock I needed to hit my marks and be smooth.

Brian P

Al makes some VERY good points. I'm sure you were exaggerating about those few yards... But, until you can hit the line EVERY time (within those few inches Al talks about), I would NOT be trying to add speed.

When you start adding speed, there might come a time when you add too much speed. When that happens, you need to take corrective action as soon as possible as the longer you wait to take action, the more correction you'll need to make. If you wait long enough (like after the apex), you might not be able to make enough corrective action and still stay on the track.

Now, what's the biggest clue that you are carrying too much speed? You won't be able to get the car down to the apex. You should be able to tell this LONG before you would hit the apex.

Now, if you can't hit the apex in normal driving, how will you know if the reason you aren't hitting it is due to your driving or due to the speed? This is why it's critical to be able to hit the apex every time and have a GOOD mental picture formed of what it should look like if everything is fine.

[ok - off of my soapbox]

Z-man

Well, I don't believe that you're not a fast driver. You may not have a fast car, but you are a fast driver, at least compared to me, which may not say much! (I know if I don't say it, one of you will! )

Ken: heed Al's advise -- it is very true. Diving turn is NOT a place you want to go faster BEFORE you've got the line down!

Less than 2 days to wait.....
-Z.

Ken

I know! I know! Geez. Hench my last statement, that I take it at a reasonable speed until I can find the line. Only until I feel comfortable with that will I add speed.

I was exagerating with the "few yards", but I unfortunately was off apex consistantly. I was too concerned with: driving a new car, dealing with an instructor who was grabbing at the wheel, trying to stay in the dry line, trying to avoid the oil that was dumped on the track, trying to figure out what the hell the instructor wanted me to do at the downhill, trying not to crash my car..... SO basically, that turn was just a throwaway for me last weekend. Hench my desire to come here, talk through it, and have goals for this week.

Z-man

Ken: sorry. Sounds like you had your hands full!

If I get a chance on Thurs & Fri, I can take some shots of you with my camera at the downhill: hopefully I can get the angle right to show you how close you are to the apex....

-Z.

richard glickel.

Geoffrey,

Even though you are a terrific driver, I don't like the combination of the MPSC on a wet or damp, AND cold track surface. I understand that once the MPSC is warmed up it is a great performing (and long wearing) tire. The problem around this time of year in the Northeast, is the track surface may not warm up ALL DAY. So take it easy on those Michelins.

Since I ain't that fast to begin with, I'm going with my Goodrich road tires at LRP on Wednesday (we'll try the Kumhos later in the D.E. season - like late May or June). Looking forward to driving at LRP again. See you there.

Richard

951Racer

Ken, It is interesting how people always look to blame others when they don't quite understand what they were suppose to do. So was is the oil and antifreeze? Was it that you could not hear what your instructor was saying? Maybe it was fumes inside the car from a very pooly tuned engine? Hell maybe it was the fact that your instructor kept having to grab the wheel because you kept turning in early?

However, it is probably because it was the first time you were at the track and did not know what the hell you were doing. You would have probably learned a lot more had your car last more than 2 run group.