Bob Rouleau

A thing that concerns me is the increase in speed in low run groups at DE. The new cars are a lot easier to drive fast. The low run groups are now much faster than they were five years ago.

A contributing factor is PSM. I wish Porsche had thought to include a warning buzzer triggered by PSM to alert the driver (and instructor). In my region we are getting a lot of keen newcomers who habitually drive the car so as to invoke PSM. As we know, PSM on late models cannot be completely turned off without modifying the car. Switch it off and it turns back on again if you apply the brakes firmly.

As a PCA instructor I don't think people should be driving in such a way as to need PSM to handle a corner. Yes I am aware that PSM is over-zealous and leaps into action even when the slip angle is perfectly acceptable to a good driver. On the other hand I have seen it save drivers from a spin or crash and worst of all, the driver is unaware that the electronics have just saved him.

I now make it a habit to inspect the rear rotors of a new student's car. PSM leaves evidence especially in the back. When I see rear rotors which are more worn than fronts I get extra wary.

In the car, it is hard to see the flashing triangle - besides I am looking where we are going or looking at my student to see where he/she is looking. Sometimes I can feel PSM - the car feels like it hit a bump which I know isn't there. I have followed a 996 TT in an uphill turn and seen puffs of tire smoke from a rear wheel! I got in the car next session and it felt as if the car had hit a fairly crude pavement joint. There was none. The driver was unaware that anything was abnormal.

I'd like to compile a list of hints on how to recognize the onset of PSM using only our seat of the pants and or eyes.

Best,

addictionms

I agree with you about slow groups getting faster, I know give it a lot of consideration before I sign up to instruct.

One thing which has helped me alot, is a lecture I got from a head instructor some time ago, wish I could remember his name. He told me that it is a privilege to be on the track, it is my responsibility to ensure that a student is being safe, and if I felt the student was doing unsafe things or even not listening to me, and still staying safe. I should tell them to pull into the hot pits, have a talk and go out again.

Now I will set an exercise before the student like "I want to you have your front tire touch every berm this lap" if the student does not, I ask again and give them two attempts, if they still fail, into the hot pits we go, to discuss why they failed to do the exercise. Do that once and they will listen forever.

Too often instructors feel that they are acting inappropriately if they slow a student down, or insist they behave. The excuse is "the student is paying for the track time I should not interfere if I can avoid it". This is the wrong approach, we are there to help, they are "paying" to have me there to teach them, if they will not listen, I will get out of the car, and leave them sitting in the padock until they learn this is a dangerous sport, and they need to listen. Imagine what it would be like if skydiving instructors took their jobs as loosely as many driving instructors do.

I only say all of this because I share your concern about getting into a 2004 M3 with a rookie driver, and hope it will let you know you are not alone, and there is a solution within your control.

Jim

Greg Fishman

I learned this fact many years ago but it was in Vipers rather than Porsches. They are both so incredibly fast and capable that when the driver gets over his head he has no idea of what to do. Add to that the fact they are going so fast when they head off track and it is a scary and dangerous job. I have had a couple students that don't listen and I don't get back in the car with them. It is not worth the risk. Most students are great and responsible, but the ones with the big egos make it tough on all instructors. I usually stick to teaching begineers and low level intermediate students. Many of the guys that are upper level intermediate students (in my experience) feel they don't need any instruction and just have to have an instructor because the club says so. IMO those are the really dangerous guys.

Back to PSM. I rode with a guy in a 996 and he thought he was really doing something in his car as he would pitch it into the corners and let the PSM straighten it out. I tried to explain that he was not driving smoothly and was going much slower than if he would not be so abrupt. He was in an upper level group and wasn't required to have an instructor so I just "signed" him off. No reason to continue riding with him.

Steve in FL

Bob: Another thing to watch out for with PSM is you'll get different wear rates on the brake pads from side to side. This is something that was commented on in the 996 Turbo forum last year. Originally someone thought they had a caliper hanging up but it turned out to be PSM activation of a single brake.

I'm also wondering if the PSM light appears instantly with PSM activation as I'd swear my Boxster S felt different in turn 14 at Sebring with PSM off vs. on yet I never saw an activation light. Not that I was geting a power cutout or noticible brake application, it just felt "odd" there with PSM enabled.

JC in NY

A well-driven Porsche 911 or Boxster with PSM ON on should not be much slower around the circuit than with PSM OFF when driven by an expert. Keep it on and work with the student to use it within its performance envelope. It is part of the engineering of the chassis that Porsche builds into their modern road cars.

SundayDriver

Bob,

You make some great points about PSM. It can keep a student out of trouble, but if they never know it is saving their butt, it is a bad thing.

Another thing to watch out for (and the reason I quit instructing) is the proliferation of racing type safety equipment - badly installed. I kept finding mid group cars with harness bars and roll bars with 5/6 point belts. I had one set, when I pushed against the harness with my shoulders, they loosened. Threaded backwards.

Another set hit the buckle with the adjusters before they were tight. I moved the seat forward and we did a couple of laps at 8/10ths becasue I was almost tight and I told the person to get that fixed (which they said they knew how to do and didn't need my offered help) before going out again. They asked me to ride with them again at the end of the day and the belts were the same.

DJ pulled the adjuster on a harness and it popped loose at the rear clip.

I have seen photos of more dangerous installs, even using thin wall tubing (like conduit) hidden back where you could not see it to inspect.

That badly installed gear, IMO, is probably the biggest danger. After a few of those, I won't ride in the passenger seat except for the people I know and when I know (or can inspect) the safety equipment.

Sorry for the tirade, but it is related. DE cars are getting much, much faster with specialized equipment, R tires for beginners, electronic driving aids hiding mistakes, etc. It keeps getting more dangerous for instructors.

Bob Rouleau

Guys,

Great stuff, thanks. I hadn't thought about uneven pad wear - obvious after you point it out, Steve.

Addict - Our rule is if the driver does not respond to instructions you park him. Too many drivers and instructors have come to grief because the instructor *thought* he could reel the guy in. My predecessor ended up with a permanent neck injury because he fell into that trap.

Mark - Amen! Zone 1 has a rule about equal restraint for driver and passenger. I always use the factory belts if available. Like you I have seen harnesses secured through the floor backed by a 1.5 inch washer!

JC - I pretty much agree, a well driven car won't invoke PSM except in slow turns where you might prefer to trail brake a 911, -slow esses with a late first apex are typical. The point I was trying to make is that sometimes it is hard to know whether the car managed to get through the corner properly because of PSM or phenomenal grip. A 996 with the PSS9 suspension and R compounds sticks like sure-glue. Is it the setup or is it PSM.

Greg - The student you describe is the kind of guy I worry about. electronics are not infallible and even when they work correctly cannot overcome the laws of physics. In my region the driver you describe he would have been busted back to a low group and forced to accept training.

FWIW our region is trying to have an incident free season. As someone said, it is about safety, fun and learning. At the last Zone 1 Chief Instructors meeting we compared notes on incidents. We had one last season - minor ding on a fender which did not prevent the car from finishing the event. That's a season with 16 track days and an average of 109 cars per event day. I wasn't too proud of it until I heard reports of 30 or more per season.

I'd appreciate any hints you can give me. I noticed that there are a LOT of instructors on this forum especially in the "open letter" thread !

Geoffrey

At the CVR Region workshop this was the subject of a 45 minute discussion and most of the points have been covered. I'll just add one additional one. Most of the instructors on the panel leading the discussion talked about the legal issues of telling a student to turn the PSM button off. They all agreed that doing so could place some responsibility (in the eyes of the courts) on the instructor if there ever was an incident.

It is a shame, but our region of 200 people has less and less instructors each year.

mitch236

I recently was promoted to instructor and I have to tell you, it's scarey. I especially find first time drivers to be the most difficult. They think they are going to be a natural and want to go fast before they learn the basics and then it becomes a battle of the wills to get them to enter turns a little slower. My favorite student is the one who has been out a few times and realizes to go fast, he must be smooth.

Regarding PSM, the first time I went out was in a 996TT and I don't know how my instructor put up with me! He is now a good friend and regular track buddy. But I surely let the electronics save me numerous times. I did have the requisite fear to keep my entry speeds under control but in the straights I was flying. If it were me in the instructor's seat I would have been mortified! Going around the safety pin at Sebring the car was pitching all over while my foot was to the floor (after turn in during the straight section) I thought I was the fastest driver ever; a natural! It wasn't until I got a dedicated track car that I realized how much I needed to learn. It was sobering and humbling.

I am still considering whether I will continue instructing.

JoelG

I was just thinking about this subject myself. Last weekend I instructed at a CarGuys event and many of cars there were Subaru STIs and Mitsu Evos. Both of these cars are very fast and have the full complement of electronic driver aids. My student (a first timer) had a couple of "oopses" that in my (old skool) car would have at least resulted in a spin, which usually puts the fear of G-d into the student. In the STI all it resulted in was the nose tucking into the corner a bit. I doubt my pointing out that he had made a mistake and the car corrected it for him (saved his a$$) had the same effect. I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but it is a real problem and its getting worse.

While there seems to be plenty of bad personal safety equipment installations out there, I dont see this as being a big problem. If the safety equipment isn't up to snuff, I don't get in the car. If we all do this, the problem will go away.

My pet peeve is unsafe video camera installations. Do you all see a lot of those?

cheers,

Joel

mitch236

Joel, lot's of bad camera installs. I personally don't allow the suction cup versions. I don't care if the safety strap is installed. But the real safety issue is clubs allowing unsafe cars onto the track. It is impossible to tech cars trackside adequately and it is up to us instructors to bring up safety issues with individual cars to the tech people. Be firm. Don't feel bad that the student paid good money. Feel good that you may be saving limb or life.

Mike Buck

Joel,
I assume you are talking about Summit Point? Can you give a more detailed description of what the student did and how the car reacted. I'm trying to get a feel for how electronic aids intervene when driving the track with which I'm probably most familiar. Was the car saving his a$$ in Turn 3 or Turn 10, for instance?

mitch236

I just remembered an incident that occurred at Moroso and want to know what the concensus is.

I was driving down the back straight which is quite wide. I noticed a crane (the bird) walking across the track. I easily avoided it and drove on. Later during my next lap the black flag came out. Someone had hit the bird and now was stopped on track. Noone was hurt and the car was Ok but the bird was seriously injured. Should I have stopped at the corner worker's station previously and alerted them to the situation? How would you have handled the situation?

smokey

Instructors can also have attitude. Last year at Watkins Glen, I had a 996 TT on my tail through the laces, and was being held back by a slow car in front of me. The TT wasn't that fast, so I intended to wait until the straight after the toe to pass the car in front of me, and then to wave by the TT . I got my signal on the straight, pulled out to pass - and the TT was right beside me, going three abreast. No signal at any time. So I let him by, and over the rest of the run, stayed within a hundred yards of him. When I tracked him down afterwards, his first question was: ARE YOU AN INSTRUCTOR (or are you scum)? I'm not an instructor, and the implication was that since I'm not an instructor, he could pass me at will without a signal. There was another very,very fast TT at the same event, and I did let him by as soon as I saw him in my mirrors. I finally got to pass him at the top of the esses, though, after he had written off his car on the ARMCO. He and the instructor sat in the car for a very very long time, looking down the esses. Guess PSM isn't perfect, even on a TT.

Al P.

I yet to have the previlage of being asked to join the instructor group from my region but having taught SCUBA diving for almost 20 years I would like to put my two cents in.

from a students point of view

hearing: not everyone can "hear" what you're saying especially in a loud car a good comunicator makes a world of difference.

understanding: no-one really wants to tell you that they don't have a clue why you're yelling about "breaking the trail into the apex"(you get my point, I hope)

listening: what hapens when a person "hears" what your saying "understands" what you mean and is capable of performing the task given him/her to your satisfaction.

from an instructors point of view

hearing: hearing what your student is trying to tell you either verbally or through their actions

understanding: what your student wants to get out of their experience on the track

teaching: in a manner that allows the student to achive their goals in a safe manner, this is different for each individual and a universal "this is what we teach" will leave at least some dis-satisfied.

PSM - my understanding is that it can't be turned off permanently and that even if you turn it off the first time you slam on the brakes it turns itself back on. Electronic aids are wonderfull BUT I fully agree that if the student doesn't know it saved his/her butt how can you teach them they did something wrong. For the suggestion box Wouldn't it be great if you could get a print-out of the PSM activation to show the student after the session?

Safety equipment - most are trying to increase the safety within their cars and telling them you just won't use the equipment will confuse them. A region that has a DE program should have a technical inspection program that looks at all the vital systems within the car before letting it out on the track. If I got into a car with the belts improperly installed I would explain to the student why we'll be using the stock belts over the safety harness he just paid good money for and after the session go find the tech guy and ask how an un-safe car made it through tech.

If a region has a standard you don't agree with (ie. harnesses with a harness bar and stock seats) don't instruct for that region and yes I did have that happen. My car was set-up to my regions standards, an out of region instructor got in and berated me for having such an un-safe car and that he would only go out this one time but under protest, I kept trying to explain I still had the stock belts but he didn't "hear" me till he finished his tirade. Boy was I confused.

sorry for the long post