Orjan

I'm not true to the topic here, but a new product from Race Technology seems to be heading it's way into production.

The new unit is named DL1 and have the following specs according to sales:
"It has 8 analogue channels, 4 wheel speed
inputs, a built in 5Hz GPS receiver, and CF storage with upto 2GB storage.
With all channels running at 100Hz it uses approximately 28MB per hour."

There is nothing on their webpages yet, but this looks like good news! Price looks to be same as the DL90.

Best regards,
Ørjan Sandland

Brian P

That's good stuff! I'm surprised that the website doesn't mention it, as there appears to be a couple of companies (in England ) that are already selling it.

Stu Waterman

I'm a bit late to this thread, but thought I'd throw in my $.02.

We use data acquisition in our karts all the time - absolutely the best way to improve your driving! Our data acquisition mantra is "Know more. Go faster."

A few comments on previous posts:

- You can configure an AIM system for less than $1000 that will give very useful information. You can always add more sensors later.

- There are 2 big differences between the AIM and Race Technology (DL90, DL1) systems: 1) the AIM comes with a user-configurable "dashboard" display, which includes shift lights, warning lights, most recent lap time, best lap time, etc. The display can also be used in playback mode after your session. The DL90/DL1 do not have a display. 2) the Race Technology units do not require a trackside beacon to mark the start/end of a lap (the GPS data solves this problem). This is somewhat more convenient for race track use, and nearly indispensible for point-to-point applications (a hill climb, for example). There are lots of other differences, but these are the 2 biggies.

- Most of the sensors are universal - they will work with any data logger. So the steering potentiometer that works on your AIM will also work on your DL90. The only issues involve the style of connector used to plug in to the logger, and these are easily changed. Most commonly used sensors (steering, throttle position, wheel speed) are inexpensive (if there is such a thing in a racing context.... ).

- Don't forget to factor in the cost of a computer... If you are going to analyze the data at the track, you will need a good laptop. If you use a system with a dashboard display, you can do a limited (but still useful) review of the session data without a computer, and download the data later. DL90 users will certainly want a laptop at the track.

The AIM data analysis software (RaceStudio) is available as a free download (http://www.aimsports.com or http://aim-sportline.com ), and it includes sample data to play with. The system and software manuals are also available for download.

Hope this helps!

ColorChange

Stu:

I have been singing the praises of a DAS high and wide and I agree completely with you, it is the best learning tool I know once you have a few DE's under your belt.

There is a reason F1 has a semi full of engineers and computer equipment, and put upwards of 200 channels on their cars! That especially includes Schumi's car.

ColorChange

Mitch: You can install IR sensors to monitor the tires, usually three per tire (inner, middle outer). This is great but a little costly, 12 channels, 12 sensors, running lots of wires. I would love it as a pyrometer is extremely difficult, if not impossible to get really good data on the track. For skid pad testing it does work. The cost depends upon how many bells and whistles you want. Around $1000 is about the minimum for a basic system. A system like mine (I did the sensor wiring and mounting myself- I have a lift in my house), was about $1,200 when I was done. If I can get the ECU version I want, there would be minimal wiring or sensors required.

Stu Waterman

ColorChange: An AIM rep recently showed me some new IR temp sensors that they will be offering later this year. Very compact stainless steel sensor housings (cylindrical, about 3/16 inch diameter and 1 1/4 inch in length). Supposed to be "reasonably priced" - we'll see.

ColorChange

Stu: Tell me if you do that. I would love to know how good the data is as actual real time tire temperature distribution should be awesome for optimizing car setup.

Geoffrey

I'm a bit late to the thread, but here is my $.02. I use MoTeC ADLs in many of the race cars and they connect to the factory Porsche GT3 cup and RS cars through the CAN bus built into the car. I'm not sure about the street cars, but I believe I read somewhere that they use the CAN bus as well. This allows access to the ECU's information. This system is excellent, but expensive. It allows inputs as was discussed for 12 channel IR sensors, shock position sensors, engine ECU sensors, etc. I do agree that the configurable dash is one of the best things about this system with its ability to get ECU data and display warnings, and other driver information automatically. Colorchange - for what you want to do, you might look into a system like this.

I installed the DL-90 in a customer car for the Sebring race and think it is a good value for the money. The software isn't as crisp as a system costing 10x more, but certainly reasonable for the price ($700 nowdays). It comes with 2 analog circuits and I used one for a connection to the throttle position switch, and you certainly could wire the other to a steering angle switch. It also has a digital circuit which we connected to the brake switch. And last it has a wheels speed circuit, but as we found out later it isn't enabeled in the software at this time and will only be used to display tire slip, not wheel speed. The DL90 also contains lat and long g sensors that are used in conjunction with the GPS to provide data as you go along the track.

I was able to break up Sebring into the straights and corners to get segments, then compare the different laps times in total and in each segment. You can then add all of the lowest times to arrive at the best "theoritical" lap time. This is a manual effort where a true DAcq system would do this for you. The system is very flexible but takes some time to learn to use. You can graph a corner time vs speed or time vs. throttle position and analyze a corner, but you are limited to an x and y variable.

Things I didn't like was that you had to manually turn on the DL90 AND push a button to begin logging. Unless you manually "zero" the accelerometers, you need to sit still for 1-2 seconds before you begin driving for the g sensors to automatically zero (default setting).

The thing about data logging is that sure you can get pretty track pictures and segment times, but if you cannot analyze the "why" to determine differences between one segment from another, I'm not sure the value except for an expensive lap timer.

ColorChange

Geoffrey:

You have exactly the type of system I want. My understanding is the P has released the protocol codes for many of their racing ECU's but has not released them for the street ECU's like I have.

Can you please comment upon how valuable the system is to your learning and going faster?

NicolasW

To expand on what Geoffrey said....

The AIM MXL (see below) is very similar to the MOTEC ADL dash.



Since the MXL is very new, they are still working out things, but I spoke to Michael Jaynes of AIM SPORTS (one of the US Distributors at http://www.aimsports.com/) and you will be able to plug the MXL into your MOTEC ECU CAN bus to log data. This will greatly simplify wiring. Of course there are sensors that probably wouldn't plug into the ECU (brake pressure, steering angle, etc.), but you get the point.

I'm VERY excited about the MXL dash system because it runs about $1200 retail and about $1600 with GPS (please don't qoute me on the prices) which is much cheaper than the MOTEC ADL. Also, the software is FREE and not spendy like the MOTEC software.

I used to have a MyChron 2 (very limited capabilities) and was very pleased with the unit...basically a glorified Hot Lap system but with oil and water temp (944 Turbo) along with RPM and speed. It was helpful on the track to see max temps and speeds. I'm sure data logging with the MXL would provide a myriad of information to analyze bringing out the geek in me.

I think the DL-90 is rather limited in its capabilities expecially for it's price. I think it's just a stand alone system.

Anyone with experience of the MXL dash should chime in.

mitch236

I just got off the phone with the folks at AIM and the MXL isn't available yet. This looks like a great product. I think you guys have converted me! Now I need to decide what info I need. They claim the GPS is accurate enough to tell differing lines through a corner. Is this true? That would be amazing accuracy.

ColorChange

Mitch: There are two different types of GPS, normal and WAAS. Normal GPS is good to about 15 feet. WAAS is good to about 3 ft, but for repeatability around the same track, it should be great at showing your lines. Does the MXL have WAAS GPS? This would be awesome. Right now, I plan to synch video to the data but would prefer the GPS route.

NicolasW

Sorry I don't know about the specifics of the GPS, but didn't the Military adjust the GPS satellites to increase accuracy for "normal" GPS? I think I remember hearing this on a GPS forum (http://www.gpspassion.com) but I wasn't sure if it was accurate.

As to the syncing video and data, you should check out http://www.apexvisualizations.com as someone mentioned above. The company was formed by a PCA member (in my region!) who merged his data from a DL-90 with his video. He said that you should be able to use any data in CSV format so I would imagine data obtained from the AIM systems would work?

Brian Morris

As far as GPS ...

A couple years ago the Military did disable "Selective Availability" which was used to intentionally degrade GPS signals. So now "normal" GPS is more accurate - but WAAS is even more accurate than that. All but the very cheapest GPS units are now WAAS enabled.

--Brian Morris
89 951

SundayDriver

If you guys are interested, I could offer some comparisons of features in the higher end systems. I currently use Motec and have owned Pi and Stack. The new AIM stuff looks really good for the price.

Tell me what you want to get out of Data Aq and I think I can help steer you towards/away from certain systems.

FYI - Motec does not charge for software, with the exception of upcharges for the more sophisticated features, such as suspension analysis.