Data Acquistion Systems - use and interpretation
03-01-2004, 11:08 AM
#46
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mitch236:
This is where you get in trouble Color, your statement is too simplistic. The fastest drivers make speed in all parts of a turn, that's what makes them fast.
Ok, I agree with you.
But for us mortals who want to be as fast as we can given our limitations, the best way is to first learn how to exit a turn. Once a driver can be consistent at the exit, then entry must be perfected. After the entry and exit are consistent, then braking is worked on. Nobody is advocating going slow on entrance, but the phrase "slow in fast out" is used because most novice drivers enter a turn too fast and then spend the first part of the turn scrubbing off speed to collect the car, which is definitely slow. Better to go a little slow on entry and concentrate on exit speed at that level of the game. As one progresses then attention to entry speed given. Maybe you are taking the phrase too literally?
I agree with you again Mitch.
The statement is a quote from Carroll Smith in Drive To Win, and the data here shows that. Schumi is slower on the exit but not slow enough to loose the advantage he gained by being so fast in the first part of the turn. The only reason I stated it, other than the data clearly shows it on this turn, and this is typically where the best drivers differentiate themselves. They carry more speed into the corners, and have similar exit speeds (easier to do). In general, they are faster on the slowest parts of the coarse (it is easier to make up time there).
This is where you get in trouble Color, your statement is too simplistic. The fastest drivers make speed in all parts of a turn, that's what makes them fast.
Ok, I agree with you.
But for us mortals who want to be as fast as we can given our limitations, the best way is to first learn how to exit a turn. Once a driver can be consistent at the exit, then entry must be perfected. After the entry and exit are consistent, then braking is worked on. Nobody is advocating going slow on entrance, but the phrase "slow in fast out" is used because most novice drivers enter a turn too fast and then spend the first part of the turn scrubbing off speed to collect the car, which is definitely slow. Better to go a little slow on entry and concentrate on exit speed at that level of the game. As one progresses then attention to entry speed given. Maybe you are taking the phrase too literally?
I agree with you again Mitch.
The statement is a quote from Carroll Smith in Drive To Win, and the data here shows that. Schumi is slower on the exit but not slow enough to loose the advantage he gained by being so fast in the first part of the turn. The only reason I stated it, other than the data clearly shows it on this turn, and this is typically where the best drivers differentiate themselves. They carry more speed into the corners, and have similar exit speeds (easier to do). In general, they are faster on the slowest parts of the coarse (it is easier to make up time there).
03-01-2004, 08:54 PM
#47
He said that you should be able to use any data in CSV format so ...
The DL-90 was readily available, and fairly popular, so our development started with that unit. Actually, I'd be interested in hearing about the other units folks use.
We've completed two beta releases of the software and hope to have the 1.0 release available in a couple weeks.
Apex Visualizations
03-02-2004, 10:02 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was thinking about the graph last night (page 3). If you notice, Schumacher comes on the brakes later but with less force and over a greater period of time. (tempering my argument so as not to be chastised) Wouldn't this support the theory of non-threshold braking? Looking at the graph alone one would draw the conclusion that Shcumacher's car was more balanced throughout the turn since his inputs were less drastic.
03-02-2004, 10:11 AM
#50
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mitch236:
Because of the difference between left foot braking and not, it is really difficult to compare. But, neither of these cars are close to threshold braking as you note. Some turns don't require threshold braking, especially at the speeds they are moving in the graph. I can throw up another graph that shows threshold braking if you want to see it.
Certainly I agree that Schumi is more balanced but as a result of not having to jump on and off the throttle and off and on the brake.
Because of the difference between left foot braking and not, it is really difficult to compare. But, neither of these cars are close to threshold braking as you note. Some turns don't require threshold braking, especially at the speeds they are moving in the graph. I can throw up another graph that shows threshold braking if you want to see it.
Certainly I agree that Schumi is more balanced but as a result of not having to jump on and off the throttle and off and on the brake.
03-02-2004, 10:23 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you have anything that would allow us to tell how well they can keep the car at threshold? Some wheel speed data with the pedal force maybe? It would be interesting how well great drivers are able to maintain the car at the edge.
03-02-2004, 11:19 AM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No Mitch 236 I don't, I would love to see that as well! That is the data I really want. I would love to see lat g's because with the speed I could calculate long g's. I would really love to see lap over lap full data for Schumi, love to see it. Anyone?
03-02-2004, 01:36 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally posted by ColorChange
But, neither of these cars are close to threshold braking as you note. Some turns don't require threshold braking, especially at the speeds they are moving in the graph.
But, neither of these cars are close to threshold braking as you note. Some turns don't require threshold braking, especially at the speeds they are moving in the graph.
03-02-2004, 03:41 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brian P. It really isn't a hairpin even though it looks like it on the map. It is a normal speed turn but it is really big, thus the long time spent in the turn, speed changing from 250 (155 mph) kmh to about 80 kmh (50 mph) and is over 300 meters (1,000 ft) long. Because it's such a long corner, threshold braking isn't called for. I have a true hairpin if you want to see threshold braking.
