stujelly

I think it is a good idea. You need to ELECT a group of drivers from all over the US to avoid the good ole boy network and I think that the drivers committee could be given some 3 levels of discipline with final approval from the weekend race steward or club racing pres. The lowest level being a warning, the second being asked to leave a race weekend and the 3rd a 13. The spirit of club racing is what I think the goal is here and taking each other out or beating and banging up someone's race car isnt what the club is about or at least I dont think we are.

As for publicizing 13s, all one has to do is look at rennpoints and if someone is not eligible for the championship, doesnt that mean they have a 13?

Streak

Rennpoints eligibility only refers to number of races as far as I know.

Nizer

How about just enforcing the existing rules? I've witnessed multiple incidents of passing under yellow/safety car, provided video evidence to stewards, and been met with a shrug. Sounds like the same thing happened at SP.

Der ABT

It is my understanding that the stewards at summit took action against the blurred out car in my examples of frustration DURING THE EVENT.
Not first hand info, but am told was black flagged twice and finally asked to leave the race while it was still going on.

Being a steward cannot be easy.....
Criticizing a steward is easy....

Looks like they acted with the info they had available so hats off to that and THANK YOU
I reported at my pit stop, showed post race, but they acted during the race....cant ask for anything else.

There is always a horror story but, man we all need to look out for each other more. If we all acted like we are supposed to...there would be very few incidents for the stewards to really have to rule on.

Be kind, race hard, but be smart, plan past the entry....

Nizer

Glad to hear that action was taken. Sounds like progress to me.

esscape26

There is an ole boys network. Once I was turned in by a racer for something in a race, when my car broke immediately on the outlap and I'd been sitting in the corner worker tub the whole time, never took the green flag. Another time when I qualified second, a posse of in-class racers went to the steward to say all kinds of things, including I "scared" one of them on the front straight during a pass near the starter stand (?). As I have told this story many times, on the race's green flag, the polesitter blocked to slow me down, then a posse member punted me. Fortunately the video showed it, and the steward wrote the letters to me and the driver that way. From past experience, it's like tattling to the principal, not great for morale and not fun to have investigations going all day long.

The transparency in 13/13s is better focused on what happened and not who the people are. The stewards have no written guidelines so their determinations are not necessarily free from error or bias or being members of the ole boys club.

Jabs1542

We had a car cause a serious incident at Summit a couple weeks ago, but had no video. Strangely the same car caused an incident two years with no video. This alone needs to be cleaned up. It’s too easy to have video, IT’S REQUIRED, and yet it’s not a big deal when you don’t have it.

LuigiVampa

True.

There should be punishments other than 13s for "other infractions", but that being said, it becomes a slippery slope.

Weston Dillard

My thoughts on process are that before you make up a new one to solve a perceived problem, you should ask 2 questions:

1. Do we already have a process to deal with this?
2. If so, are we properly following the process?

If the answer to #1 is No, then perhaps a new process is needed. If the answer to both #1 and #2 are Yes, then a process revision might be in order.

The answer to #1 is Yes. Bring it to the Steward. The earlier in the weekend, the better.

Since I read a lot more complaints here than what I see when I'm in the tower, I would suggest that the answer to #2 is No. If you see questionable driving, bring your video to the Steward. Also remember that just because the Steward doesn't run out and punch the guy in the nose, it doesn't mean that nothing comes of it. We do have a Watch List, and and folks on it are certainly more likely to get some personal time with a Steward.

UPDATE: 38D pointed out that things can get pretty backed up in the tower and it can be hard to get a Steward. Good point. You can always send a video to me or one of the race Stewards after the race. Obviously, it's too late then to do anything about it for that race, but we will reach out to offenders and/or add to our Watch List as appropriate.

I do have sympathy for Luigi's concern about not knowing who is in our out of the points race. Perhaps we can make a change to help there.

West

garrett376

It might help if there was some feedback to know the system that is in place, is working. Right in front of a waving yellow flag station, I was run off the track on the last lap of a race by a lone GTC5 car doing 11+ seconds per lap faster than me and my measly J car, and the guy ran me off the track in the direction of the stranded car that was the cause of the waving yellow. All I know is the score sheet said he got a DQ for that race due to incorrect tires, and he was back racing for the next races. I offered video to the steward about the incident right after the race, but the steward didn't even want to see it. I had emailed you and Vicki about this occurrence, but also didn't get any response about it.

esscape26

Villifying people regarding 13/13 decisions made, points race eligibility or not, without published, written guidelines on how those are decisions are to be made, transparency on what has happened in incidents deemed to be 13/13 (without names), and an appeal system that's fair (in some cases the appeal goes to the same guy who gave it to you), that's a kangaroo court.

If you want the driver to improve, if it is warranted, shaming them out of PCA racing is not the way to do it. Some of the drivers causing mayhem never hit anyone. Some of the people with 13/13s have been racing for 20 years without ever getting one, or others will get one and then never get one again. Right now without having to think, I can name four drivers who have had 13/13s that I would put my car next to any day of the week, even a day after their so called at fault incidents.

TRAKCAR

You lost me at committee.
Video is good if you file a complaint or are involved in an incident.

Then they guy in charge decides and the end.

tgsmith4845

I personally choose to have a conversation with a fellow racer who’s driving like a knucklehead. That works, most times. In the case where it doesn’t work, I’ve never been disappointed having a conversation with the PCA Steward.

BTW - There already is “a list”. :-)

Gary R.

This I see as a problem that needs to be addressed....

Weston Dillard

This is simply not true.

Gary R - I believe this is the exception, not the rule. Regardless, we are woking on it.

Garrett - I owe you an apology, I meant to get back to you after conferring with the Event Steward, and I dropped the ball.

All - if you don't get a response, please try a second time before giving up. Just an email that says "Poke" goes a long way.

West