fatbillybob

To anyone who has run a motec ecu on their car: Is the process of getting a car up and running with the motecs as easy as they say? To dial in the motec how much dyno time did you need? Was dyno time 90% effective once you got to real driving? 100%? 50%?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

FBB:

We've done a LOT of Motec installations and setups on a multitude of 911's.

Its first mapped on the engine dyno followed by many hours in the car to fine-tune the low speed drivability, cold & hot starting, and acceleration enrichment.

Getting it running is not too difficult, depending on the engine's configuration. Its the latter part that take lots of time to get it right.

Typically, its easily a full day on the dyno for 50% to WOT mapping. After that, it can take 10-60 hours to get it as perfect as possible. Race cars take less time to do than street cars since they spend the majority of their time betwwen 4000 RPM and 8000 RPM and at 50% to wide open throttle.

fatbillybob

Everyone ECU system has their followers. Motecs seem to be the hands down winners but the most complicated to use but also the most tuneable. There is no free lunch. Tec3 Electromotives are the other end of the scale cheap and easy to use they claim. Once you depart from Motecs you get to $20k real race systems. There are alot of grassroots racers using Tec3 and even Haltechs which seem to be halfway between Tec3's and Motecs. Do you have an opinion on these units? The only thing about Motecs is all that tuning time required. Is ther any diot device out there that can just read a wide band O2 sensor and keep a mixture at a specified amount like 12:1 and just run?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

I agree with you on Tec3,...we do not ANY Electromotive products,...

I'd also agree that MoTec's resolution makes it the most time consuming to program. Its the best, tho.

We also do a lot with DTA and I'm very impressed with its bang-for-the-buck. Its GUI interface is also much more user-friendly than MoTec's.

That's it for me,...MoTec or DTA,....

You HAVE to map all of them on a dyno otherwise you are putting the engine at great risk. There is no room for "Kentucky Windage" here.

poorb0yw

Hey Steve hows it going?

Know anything about the Autronic systems? Heard a bunch of good things from the import crowd. A good friends shop was thinking about looking into it as another alternative for buyers since a great deal of that crowd isn't ready to spring for a Motec. They mostly have experience with Haltech and Motec tuning (Hondata too but that has limited applications).

All the best,

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hey Princeton,....how are ya?

I know of Autronic and have heard some good things about it, but I have no first-hand experience with it as yet.

We have only used Motec, some different Electromotive systems, DTA, Link,....etc.

It looks very interesting but I do factor my recommendations factored around the expense of learning and programming on the dyno (@ $600/day) so I don't like learning on my customer's dime,...

If it has the same or better resolution as DTA and the same number of auxiliary channels (or more) as M48 MoTec, I'd be interested.

I surely understand how bloody expensive this stuff gets (ouch), but its really a texbook case of "you get what you pay for". I just deplore cutting corners to pinch pennies on something one will live with for a long time,....

Laura

We also do alot of MOTEC. If your really serious about tuning the car to the best it can be and using the information fromm the numerous sensors you can install with MOTEC, it is worth the money. It can improve you, the driver, greatly. Yes, the initial entry can be $$, but it offers many facets that some of the other programs do not. Shops who have experience with the system usually have basic maps for similar cars and drivers that can keep the dyno time down to fine tuning for your initial outing, but to do it right you also need to spend the time at the track with your tech to tune you up personally. Quite a few of the new cup cars are upgraded to the ADL dash immediately with support from PMNA.

We've looked at other systems, and keep coming back to MOTEC.

Laura
Hergesheimer MotorSports

poorb0yw

Doin pretty well although I'm really strapped for modification cash right now . The GT2 EVO body conversion is going pretty well (dunno if you saw the updated bodywork pics on the 993 forum. I'm sure you've seen plenty of these cars tho ). Thanks again for all the advice on this subject. Hopefully we will be fabricating my new headers and exhaust system later this month.

Yup know exactly what you mean. Asking around for my buddies since they have only "heard" good things from people. There don't seem to be too many of those systems around. Would be nice to find one being used successfully before taking the plunge to buy one and learn it.

Unfortunately it seems much harder to convince a majority of the Japanese import kids to spend more for quality.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

[QUOTE]Originally posted by poorb0yw
Doin pretty well although I'm really strapped for modification cash right now . The GT2 EVO body conversion is going pretty well (dunno if you saw the updated bodywork pics on the 993 forum. I'm sure you've seen plenty of these cars tho ). Thanks again for all the advice on this subject. Hopefully we will be fabricating my new headers and exhaust system later this month.
[quote]

I did see that and its lookin' real good,....

Quote:

Yup know exactly what you mean. Asking around for my buddies since they have only "heard" good things from people. There don't seem to be too many of those systems around. Would be nice to find one being used successfully before taking the plunge to buy one and learn it.

Unfortunately it seems much harder to convince a majority of the Japanese import kids to spend more for quality.

I'd agree with that assessment. There is no question that the entry cost for good engine management prices many out of the market. I'm not really certain, but given the cost differences between a high-powered Honda B-18 and any 911 N/A engine (much less a turbocharged one) defines the risk level and consequences of using an inadeqate system,,....

Geoffrey

I'll chime in here. It is doubtful that you'll find anyone who has a plug-n-play map for your car for any EFI system. You may find one that will enable the car to be started and revved a bit, but it is not likely that you'll find one that will allow you to run your car...certainly not for free. MoTeC is not overly complicated, but it DOES take someone with a healthy amount of MoTeC experience to set them up because of the flexibility of the detail the ECU program provides. As A MoTeC dealer, it is of course my first choice for many reasons such as table resolutions, available compensation tables, input/output flexibility, and most important in my opinion is Data Logging and Wide band Lambda support. The last two are the things that sway me the most. Provided the system has been installed properly and there are no mechanical issues, the bulk of the engine programming can be done on a chassis or engine dyno in 4 hours with another 4 hours of detail tuning. You will then use the wonderful logging and wide band support to fine tune the engine on the track for "real world" tuning.

There are other ECUs that are less expensive (Autronic, Haltech come to mind) that have a good value, but lack much of the features that make the MoTeC bulletproof. From a support perspective, I like to know what my customer's cars are doing so when they break the programming isn't blamed. EFI is such a misunderstood concept, it is very often the first thing everyone blames when an engine breaks...