ProCoach

No, don’t think so. Track days are quite popular in the UK and continent, too. I have plenty of colleagues that stay busy with those, not just racing.

I wish we had ARDS...

TFBoxster

Correct. Most instructors are making a living from instructing Track day/HPDE drivers.

However, most coaches are making a living from coaching racing drivers. There are far more instructors than coaches.

Previously I've also worked with track day drivers who have got to a level where they are intentionally and consistently driving at the limit, that I've told them they need to be in a car with proper safety equipment. A standard road car is no longer appropriate. Everyone's measure of risk is different though.

Manifold

TFBoxster, DE instructors here in the US don't typically do it for free, they generally get discounted or free registration for the events, and drive in their own sessions in addition to being in the right seat with students for student's sessions. So there's a sort of compensation involved, but it's considered by most to be closer to a volunteer role rather than a job, since the effective hourly rate is low and instructors don't have any sort of employment agreement or contract for their instructing role.

Could you tell us more about how the track day system works in Europe? I'm interested in how many run groups you have at track days, whether there's a defined student group, percentage of drivers who learn with instructors/coaches versus trying to figure it out on their own, percentage of instructors/coaches who sit in the right seat, etc.

PLNewman

Regarding Chin Track Days.... Yes, track fees are waived for instructors. But we are asked to "delay the start" of our on-track sessions to allow "paying customers" some clean laps before we enter the fray. Chin also whacks a student with a $100 "Coaching Fee" for having a mandatory instructor in the right seat. A typical 2-day event is $699 PLUS the Coaching Fee. This $100 mandatory Coaching Fee is kept by Chin and not shared with the instructor.

Manifold

None of this sounds unreasonable to me, and I still view it as a better deal as an instructor than the modest instructor registration discount my local PCA region offers.

TXE36

A Chin event has more track time and fewer cars in the run groups, thus the costs are going to be higher than a typical PCA DE event. Around here, the normal instructor load is 2 students, for Chin it is 1 student. The coaching fee isn't a big deal as the instructor deal is arguably better than PCA locally.

-Mike

TFBoxster

Its generally more relaxed in Europe, but in the UK most days are described as Open Pit Lane. So no sessions, you're free to come and go as you wish (assuming max number of cars on track isn't reached). 50% are organised by the circuit venue, the other 50% are organised by registered TDO's (Track day Organisers). Of which there are around a dozen in the UK although most days are organised by 5-6 long standing companies.

10 years ago most track days were sessioned and typically split into 3 groups -, experienced, intermediate and novice. Most often you'd select your own group but then the instructors onsite would move you if it was thought appropriate. This format is no longer used though other than on very rare occasions.

Of those that operate there is a spread in the general quality of driver and car that attend the events. Some are aimed at more novice drivers, with more cars on track but a cheaper fee. Others are at the more premium end and are often 50% racers and 50% road/modified road cars attending with reduced numbers. Generally proper Test days are in comparison limited and more expensive than track days. Although this is improving gradually.

Regarding instructors, the circuit venue or organiser generally provide 2-3 instructors on the day that can be booked in 20 minute sessions or longer periods. And then there would probably be around 10 - 20% of drivers will bring along their own instructor. Occasionally if your driving ability/safety is called into question the TDO will make you pay for an instructor session who will assess the drivers competence to be on track. Of the racers, it would be a higher percentage that bring along their own coach/use the Teams designated Pro.

The overtaking rules are fairly strict for track days. It is by consent, only on the straights and passing on the left only. One premium TDO pays higher insurance premiums and allows overtaking on both sides. Their days usually have a high percentage of racers attending.

Manifold

^ Thank you TFBoxster, fascinating to compare the differences with the US.

Gofishracing

I've had issues in the past with drivers bringing their own coaches. VERY rarely will I agree if I'm involved like in the past. I have some really scary stories. Maybe OK for racing but not for DE even at events with open passing.

the_vetman

I don't delay my starts and go out on the track whenever I can with Chin. Red, Blue, I'm out there when I can. Just have to come in early and be available for my student. If you're going to go back to "I drive in Blue because of all the pros that show up at Chin events", I've driven my Spec Miata many times with Chin. Been on the track with Toni Vilander, Andrettis, IMSA cars, LMP2 cars. As long as you have good situational awareness it's not a problem. And a Spec Miata is PAINFULLY slow compared to the aforementioned big wigs.

Go out there, watch your mirrors, be courteous, and you'll be fine. Doesn't sound like a Chin problem.

Manifold

Back when I was younger and had regular students at Chin events, I had some events where I was on track literally every session: ride with student for morning warmup, go out for all student sessions, ride with student for happy hour, and go out for every Red and Blue session, starting each session a little late and ending little early, so that I'd have time for talking with the student before and after their sessions and have time to pee.

RickBetterley

Plus 1
This info about the Euro approach is quite interesting

RickBetterley

I have to say that the day an event assigns me more than 1 student is the last day I instruct for them (exception - check out ride, one run with an advanced driver, or I don't have a running car).
I put way too much into my 1 student to have time for another.

LuigiVampa

I agree with this. How can you give your all to multiple students?

Drive my own session, drive with the student, spend time debriefing with the student, rinse and repeat.

Not any time to help another student effectively.

mhm993

This.