ProCoach

This is true.

On the former, I'm generally against the idea of "showing" or "assisting" the left-seat pilot with control inputs (unless I have duplicates on the passenger side, which do exist BTW). The idea of of "showing them" is better done with them in the right seat. Teaches humility, too.

On the latter, sure, grab the wheel. Do whatever you can after the crisis begins to mitigate loss. But don't think you're "in control." We will never know what the final moments were in that car, but I know the coach, as a professional, did everything he could. And it wasn't enough...

TXE36

Better thought of as a control input, and yes, still may not be enough. I"m not second guessing the instructor/coach here at all. Given his credentials, it is pretty sobering to a guy who does this occasionally on weekends.

-Mike

Manifold

When I look back at the crashes I know of where an instructor/coach was seriously injured or worse, the majority of those instructors/coaches were quite experienced.

So none of us should be overconfident about our ability to manage the risks while in the car, and we should also be paying attention to our safety gear, the safety systems in the car, and the safety of the track itself. In other words, assuming that the student will crash with you in the right seat, how protected are you against injury?

To the extent that those safety measures are lacking, I think it's important to keep the student on a tighter leash.

None of this commentary is meant to be critical of Peter London in any way. Beyond not knowing the details of this incident, I'm just so saddened about what happened to him and the grief his family and friends are experiencing. He was much too young. Such a terrible loss.

95spiderman

driver of the car is in 'control' but instructor is in 'command'

ProCoach

You are fooling yourself...

95spiderman

in ideal situation but not necessarily reality, unfortunately

996AE

A life long friend of mine and fellow racer since middle school is today a retired pro driver and full time paid coach. It has been his career now since pro retirement and he has made his living as a paid coach for 20 plus years now.

He seconds the opinion that a wheel grab is never, ever taught to instructors. Period. "The mere thought that a last minute high speed off track incident can be altered (attempt to mitigate damage) by a wheel grab is a joke". It is a fantasy to think that from the passenger seat you will alter the outcome. Both feet in.

No one is second guessing this incident. The death is tragic beyond understanding of those that are not instructors and racers. We lifelong racers and instructors know our risk, and we accept it. But we can attempt to learn from this incident.

A lot of good input and dialogue in this thread.

Get to know your student, their attitude, driving history, time in "this car", track time, prior racing or track work. Daily driver? Occupation? New to track, tell me about your skateboard or bicycle, motorcycle experience etc... speed is speed and attitude and respect for speed is key to me. New to track, new to car, play a big role in how I coach driver and what I tell them I expect in the first few sessions. Smooth, hit the apexs and listen to my input. First time they fail to respond to input we are in the hot pits. Only had this once. Talk to your student and get to know them before you get in the car.

First few warm up laps tell me 95% of what I need to know. If you feel unsafe, get another instructor to go out with driver.

My heart is heavy for family and friends here. Having woke up in the hospital more than a few times from racing incidents I can relate as can my wife and family.

God speed.

95spiderman

but it is taught to instructors. was taught to me during instructor school 3 yrs ago and its accepted in the 5 groups i instruct with. there is no period. its just that your friend never heard of it. consider the possibility...

996AE

Pro driving coach 20 years. Decent resume I'd say.

Post your resume for such statement along with the name of instructor school teaching wheel grab and under what circumstances! Love to see the curriculum from this school.

Kindly post the "five groups" also.

I am sure many would like to know and learn.

Manifold

Never heard of it, no training or experience with it, and therefore basing his opinion on what he imagines might happen, rather than what has actually happened among those who have experience with it.

Manifold

The pro driving coaches in this thread, who have experience with it, seem to disagree with your anonymous friend who has no experience with it.

95spiderman

bmwcca its 2016. scda, nasa, hod.

Manifold

And we can add the largest PCA region to that list, among others.

Veloce Raptor

I am thankful I have never felt compelled to employ this technique in the face of disaster. That said, my 20 years also at the track and coaching has taught me one over arching truism about this wonderful sport: there is more than one way to skin every possible permutation of cat. To say that, because one person wouldn't do it, therefore it should never be done, is just plain silly. And this applies to pretty much anything in racing

ProCoach

In this thread, this is a silly, petty little argument... Doesn't bring him back.

I'm with you, VR. It all goes out the window when it's you in the seat with no pedals or wheel in front of you.

I've had only a few moments when I thought I was going to get badly hurt in thirty-plus years of paying clients...

The odds are NOT getting better, and I was very lucky.