Instructor killed at PBIR April 16 2019
04-18-2019, 05:46 PM
#31
This is tragic news, and so sad for all involved.
Given the description of the accident, it made me wonder if there is an exotic car experience at PBIR where you can rent 3 laps in a Ferrari, Lambo, etc. and if that might have been involved. However this came to be, a most terrible outcome
Given the description of the accident, it made me wonder if there is an exotic car experience at PBIR where you can rent 3 laps in a Ferrari, Lambo, etc. and if that might have been involved. However this came to be, a most terrible outcome
Notwithstanding the fact that tracks and cars are vastly safer than they were when I raced, safe tracks and technologically sophisticated cars may not always be able to overcome errors made by an inexperienced driver.
04-18-2019, 11:12 PM
#33
RIP
04-19-2019, 06:03 PM
#34
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In my experience (more than a hundred students, many dozens of checkouts, and training/evaluating new instructors), the most challenging students have been (a) younger aggressive drivers who don't respect the risks and don't always want to listen and (b) older drivers who fit what you described, and need to accept that driving on track isn't for them. But I don't want to stereotype based on age, since these challenging students are a small minority, and typical good students span the entire age range.
What I've learned is that when communicating with / instructing someone, we can be doing one of three things:
- we can talk to them, tell them what we think they need to know;
- we can ask them questions, probe, get curious about what they think;
- we can listen to the student talk.
(I hope it is obvious that I cannot possibly know how Peter London was working with his student, and mean no disrespect toward him. I am simply reflecting on Manifold's post.)
04-19-2019, 06:51 PM
#35
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Maybe yes, maybe no. The problem is such criteria are not very helpful. I've had the pleasure of mentoring instructor candidates for PCA for a bunch of years. The mistake, big big mistake that almost every one of my candidates has made is failing to crawl inside the student's head (me, for example when we role play) and calibrate what's going on. Vulcan mind meld. You *have* to do this, it is the only way to stay safe. And be a good instructor, to boot.
What I've learned is that when communicating with / instructing someone, we can be doing one of three things:
(I hope it is obvious that I cannot possibly know how Peter London was working with his student, and mean no disrespect toward him. I am simply reflecting on Manifold's post.)
What I've learned is that when communicating with / instructing someone, we can be doing one of three things:
- we can talk to them, tell them what we think they need to know;
- we can ask them questions, probe, get curious about what they think;
- we can listen to the student talk.
(I hope it is obvious that I cannot possibly know how Peter London was working with his student, and mean no disrespect toward him. I am simply reflecting on Manifold's post.)
04-19-2019, 07:48 PM
#36
I agree as well, getting into the student's head is key. I don't relax for the instructing part of the track weekend until I get in there. Once inside and a workable arrangement is in place, it's "okay, lets have some fun". Without that, it is "shields up" and not nearly as fun. A student providing verbal feedback puts me at ease, a quiet student, even one that listens and is demonstrating good judgement, isn't quite as comfortable.
-Mike
-Mike
04-19-2019, 08:00 PM
#37
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Uggh. Prayers and vibes.
There are no words....
There are no words....
04-19-2019, 09:55 PM
#38
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I can tell you that Peter was far beyond many, of not most, club instructors. It didn't save him...
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
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"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
04-19-2019, 09:58 PM
#39
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Maybe yes, maybe no. The problem is such criteria are not very helpful. I've had the pleasure of mentoring instructor candidates for PCA for a bunch of years. The mistake, big big mistake that almost every one of my candidates has made is failing to crawl inside the student's head (me, for example when we role play) and calibrate what's going on. Vulcan mind meld. You *have* to do this, it is the only way to stay safe. And be a good instructor, to boot.
What I've learned is that when communicating with / instructing someone, we can be doing one of three things:
(I hope it is obvious that I cannot possibly know how Peter London was working with his student, and mean no disrespect toward him. I am simply reflecting on Manifold's post.)
What I've learned is that when communicating with / instructing someone, we can be doing one of three things:
- we can talk to them, tell them what we think they need to know;
- we can ask them questions, probe, get curious about what they think;
- we can listen to the student talk.
(I hope it is obvious that I cannot possibly know how Peter London was working with his student, and mean no disrespect toward him. I am simply reflecting on Manifold's post.)
But NOTHING is going to save you in THIS situation... God DAMN it...
04-19-2019, 11:16 PM
#40
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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04-20-2019, 07:43 AM
#41
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Thought exactly the same thing when I read it Luigi.
Sobering is an understatement to say the least.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. 100% gratitude and appreciation to every instructor I've ever had in my right seat. You guys are the reason I drive like I drive.
An incident like this really lets me know how much you instructors sacrifice and how much you really put out there on the line to keep this sport alive and growing.
Not much else to say here. So saddened by this. Just way too close to home to even think about.
Thoughts to the families and friends of the victims of this incident. Just too sad to even put into words....
Sobering is an understatement to say the least.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. 100% gratitude and appreciation to every instructor I've ever had in my right seat. You guys are the reason I drive like I drive.
An incident like this really lets me know how much you instructors sacrifice and how much you really put out there on the line to keep this sport alive and growing.
Not much else to say here. So saddened by this. Just way too close to home to even think about.
Thoughts to the families and friends of the victims of this incident. Just too sad to even put into words....
Last edited by dgrobs; 04-20-2019 at 09:03 AM.
04-20-2019, 08:40 AM
#42
04-20-2019, 09:19 AM
#43
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Thanks for that link. Done.
04-20-2019, 09:27 AM
#44
04-20-2019, 10:11 AM
#45
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