Brake fluid and pads
#16
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I only spent 30K on my car, and I'm new. There are lots of expenses and I'd like to have the most fun while being safe. The economics are always important and I plan to upgrade as I develop my skill level. I am fortunate that I have the income to support a hobby such as this, I'm learning as I go. I also will be doing the bulk of the maintenance myself, not for economic reasons, but to be hands on. I have met many people in the PCA that use their street cars for track days. I've also met several people that have dedicated track cars. Right now I want to have this car be a dual purpose car. If this track hobby keeps getting bigger and bigger I may make this a dedicated track car and then get myself another car for GT duties. I plan to have fun finding out where this goes.
#17
Three Wheelin'
Oh boy. You should have started out with a tow vehicle, stacking trailer and car with full cage and fire suppression. You definitely need two car just in case you ball up the first. Anything less is just asking for it. Really, just stay off the track because it's too dangerous. Have you ever tried sim racing? LOL
FYI - I use SRF and PFC 08 Pads. Half the fun is figuring out what you like and what works for you and the car you drive.
FYI - I use SRF and PFC 08 Pads. Half the fun is figuring out what you like and what works for you and the car you drive.
#18
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Here's some information on brake fluid boiling points. First is a chart showing how Shell's various fluids react to water content. Second, a table of boiling points for various fluids.
I've superimposed on that the dry and wet boiling points of SRF, RBF600, and ATE200. Since I don't have access to how those fluids react between dry and "wet", I've just drawn straight lines. No doubt they likely curve just like the Shell fluids.
Wet is defined as 3.7% water, and the yellow line depicts that on the graph.
Cost per liter for the three fluids is:
SRF -- $60
RBF600 -- $34
ATE200 -- $17
If you figure in how frequently you will need to change each of these fluids (ie ATE much more often than RBF or SRF) the cost differential diminishes considerably. If you are flushing them at the same service interval ATE saves you $43 per flush. Given what you spend on tires, fuel, pads, registration fees, hotel room, meals,... not to mention your car, the differential is pretty small. Boiling your brake fluid is not a particularly fun thing to do.
I've superimposed on that the dry and wet boiling points of SRF, RBF600, and ATE200. Since I don't have access to how those fluids react between dry and "wet", I've just drawn straight lines. No doubt they likely curve just like the Shell fluids.
Wet is defined as 3.7% water, and the yellow line depicts that on the graph.
Cost per liter for the three fluids is:
SRF -- $60
RBF600 -- $34
ATE200 -- $17
If you figure in how frequently you will need to change each of these fluids (ie ATE much more often than RBF or SRF) the cost differential diminishes considerably. If you are flushing them at the same service interval ATE saves you $43 per flush. Given what you spend on tires, fuel, pads, registration fees, hotel room, meals,... not to mention your car, the differential is pretty small. Boiling your brake fluid is not a particularly fun thing to do.
#19
Here's some information on brake fluid boiling points. First is a chart showing how Shell's various fluids react to water content. Second, a table of boiling points for various fluids.
I've superimposed on that the dry and wet boiling points of SRF, RBF600, and ATE200. Since I don't have access to how those fluids react between dry and "wet", I've just drawn straight lines. No doubt they likely curve just like the Shell fluids.
Wet is defined as 3.7% water, and the yellow line depicts that on the graph.
Cost per liter for the three fluids is:
SRF -- $60
RBF600 -- $34
ATE200 -- $17
If you figure in how frequently you will need to change each of these fluids (ie ATE much more often than RBF or SRF) the cost differential diminishes considerably. If you are flushing them at the same service interval ATE saves you $43 per flush. Given what you spend on tires, fuel, pads, registration fees, hotel room, meals,... not to mention your car, the differential is pretty small. Boiling your brake fluid is not a particularly fun thing to do.
I've superimposed on that the dry and wet boiling points of SRF, RBF600, and ATE200. Since I don't have access to how those fluids react between dry and "wet", I've just drawn straight lines. No doubt they likely curve just like the Shell fluids.
Wet is defined as 3.7% water, and the yellow line depicts that on the graph.
Cost per liter for the three fluids is:
SRF -- $60
RBF600 -- $34
ATE200 -- $17
If you figure in how frequently you will need to change each of these fluids (ie ATE much more often than RBF or SRF) the cost differential diminishes considerably. If you are flushing them at the same service interval ATE saves you $43 per flush. Given what you spend on tires, fuel, pads, registration fees, hotel room, meals,... not to mention your car, the differential is pretty small. Boiling your brake fluid is not a particularly fun thing to do.
#20
Originally Posted by Kitc2246
No one has given me a solid scientific reason why a 987.2 that weighs 3,000 lbs needs a six month brake fluid flush other than its the same PCA Potomac rule for ALL Porsches for DEs. :
#21
Originally Posted by Rhythmaddict
This. For me (at around 20 track days/year) it's easier to put in SRF once at the beginning of the season and not think about it again... BTW, FCPEuro.com will provide free lifetime replacements of SRF (no affiliation). https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/dot...-castrol-12512
#22
Rennlist Member
BTW, FCPEuro.com will provide free lifetime replacements of SRF (no affiliation). https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/dot...-castrol-12512
#23
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
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Site Sponsor
We offer an amazing proprietary friction package for the 987 platform that won more professional races in North America then any other pad in a Cayman.
Friction-One
Front Compound - Rs1
Rear Compound -Rs2
Graphs attached below
Friction-One
Front Compound - Rs1
Rear Compound -Rs2
Graphs attached below
__________________
#24
Rennlist Member
Have you used FCP for this? I'm not sure it's part of their warranty. From their website: "The only exclusion to this program is empty containers with contents that can not be physically returned. For example aerosol spray cleaners and additives that have been discharged or emptied."
#25
I have not used the for srf yet but rotors for 2 years. I think that is referring products that can't be refilled w the old fluid (e.g. aerosol). This is a screenshot from their return form
#26
Rennlist Member
What has proven to be..
The best for me, recommended by my "wrench" who crews on race cars, RF-650: https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/store/product/endless-rf-650-brake-fluid-500ml/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwsZ3kBRCnARIsAIuAV_Tv4h8bMArPV0EsKjQpaRAUCQtOmohqIqvNj9oEy yx1sHWGeGJ9900aAgvLEALw_wcB
That fluid in combination with Pagid Yellow pads front and rear, and 350mm Giro 2 Piece rotors on front with slotted 350mm rotors on the rear .....awesome package.
That fluid in combination with Pagid Yellow pads front and rear, and 350mm Giro 2 Piece rotors on front with slotted 350mm rotors on the rear .....awesome package.
#27
Rennlist Member
The best for me, recommended by my "wrench" who crews on race cars, RF-650: https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/store/product/endless-rf-650-brake-fluid-500ml/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwsZ3kBRCnARIsAIuAV_Tv4h8bMArPV0EsKjQpaRAUCQtOmohqIqvNj9oEy yx1sHWGeGJ9900aAgvLEALw_wcB
That fluid in combination with Pagid Yellow pads front and rear, and 350mm Giro 2 Piece rotors on front with slotted 350mm rotors on the rear .....awesome package.
That fluid in combination with Pagid Yellow pads front and rear, and 350mm Giro 2 Piece rotors on front with slotted 350mm rotors on the rear .....awesome package.
#28
Three Wheelin'
Feel free to experiment and report back. I've had fluid boil and didn't like the experience (fluid was approx 6 months old). I switched to Motul 600 and now flush at least 500ml of through the system before any event. I'm happy doing it as I don't worry about the fluid boiling and haven't had any problems since. Overly cautious - probably. Worth the $15 and 20 mins involved? For me, yes. It's my hobby and I'm happy doing it. YMMV etc.
#29
Rennlist Member
Bleeding and flushing are different. If you don't have any soft pedal symptoms not sure why you need to bleed, but doesn't hurt. Flushing replaces all (actually most) of the brake fluid. I understand that the brakes are the last system on the car you want to fail, but as an engineer some of this has no scientific bases just anecdotal reasons and more often is better. Again for our level of Pcars at a weekend DE. I've often thought about a 981, but paying another $30K (or more) and having to remove the calipers to change front pads. While I'd love an "S" I haven't found they are significantly quicker on the track but I'm guessing that's driver experience and the advantage of my PDK Sport+.
#30
Three Wheelin'
I agree that bleeding and flushing are different. But when I do track events, I always flush, especially since flushing usually includes bleeding, and we should be doing it every two years regardless. If you boil the fluid, even just once, it really should be flushed prior to the next track event.