Steve113

Tgibrit- What are you talking about ? It was never a threat not even a remote possibility . If damage is close to the deductible we would inform our clients the options. Not unlike what any good broker would do on your home and autos if a claim was close to a deductible. Please don't ever say we threatened a client ever that I take veryyyy personally . My agency has been in business for over 80 years . We pride ourselves on doing only whats right for our clients . Honestly I am done even answering you.

hf1

So if he filed the claim he’d be (much?) more likely to get cancelled, and if he didn’t file the claim then all would be good, even though the accident was known to have happened all the same? How does the act of filing the claim affect the riskiness of the client in this case?

tgibrit

raw nerve? I see you keep referring to the damage close to deductible line but never address the core concern of the policy you seem to offer "If you make 1 claim we cancel you for the rest of the year and won't insure you again for 3 years". Is that the default answer unless a complaint is made to you as the owner of the business with your insurance products, meaning if a client accepts the guidance from your employee without complaint their policy is cancelled?

I don't know you or the claimant and this is an Internet thread, having said that this is a forum for a community who like to track their cars and it seems to me perfectly legitimate to debate the pros and cons of the products and services offered by vendors to this community.

Steve113

Again every claim is underwritten individually (by me who has raced professionally, been a chief instructor/instructor for various clubs and a private coach) there is nothing set in stone. Its all looked at with a very open mind. If we do elect to have a waiting period or cool down period its based on lots of underwriting factors. You do not loose a dime of your premium and are not impacted other then us not being able to insure you for a period of time. Your policy is on a per event basis.

I am sure you are aware if you have auto claims on your regular policy you are at risk of being cancelled. This is nothing new. Are you aware that with many regular automobile insurance companies if you have an accident in the first 30 days of taking out a policy the carrier can/will cancel that policy mid term?

When we started 8 years ago we had several drivers that had multiple repetitive HPDE crashes with high dollar crashes that had huge impact on the program. If you look at how many programs have come and gone due to losses its very important we protect a few blowing it for the rest. (One Ex: look at Chubb -they where writing the coverage years ago and burned )

We offer what we feel is the best coverage with the best service and very stable pricing for 8 years - The whole idea is to keep it that way for all of our clients . Would you rather programs loose money and then you are left with No choices on who to insure with? What do you think would happen to clubs that depend on HPDE for a lot of there revenue?

You have the freedom to choice who you can insure with and this is great lets try to keep it that way for everyone's sake

LuigiVampa

Is everyone on this thread unaware of how insurance works?

Insurance companies are in the risk management business. If you make a claim you either pay a higher premium in the years following a claim or they cancel you.

Is this really news to everyone? You keep paying a few hundred dollars to insure your car and they will keep writing checks for tens of thousands?

No one should need to be told this information. It's how insurance works.

mgordon18

Hi Steve,

Thanks for hanging in this thread and addressing people's concerns. I have an innocent question for you, though: Aren't claims where the damage is close to the deductible the best kind of claims for you? They cost you almost nothing to pay out. It sounds like these would be your bread and butter. Why would you cancel a policy after making a claim that costs you the least amount of payout? Wouldn't you want to hold onto those policies forever and just have those people happy to work with you, recommending you for your prompt and convenient service?

Digitalwave

For real. I don't get it, the guy with the major ax to grind isn't/wasn't even a customer of theirs.

tgibrit

Please do not misunderstand my intent, I appreciate that companies such as yours provide track insurance and my questions relate to understanding the market and who offers what services and under what terms. I have an annual policy just for the track. Understanding how and when insurance can be cancelled is important, to me at least, and is one of the factors in choosing a vendor. I have had insurance cancelled once many years ago by making two claims in one year on my house policy (storm damage) and getting insurance thereafter was a problem for a year to two. I would not expect to have my policy cancelled for a first claim but fully expect an increase in my premium, and if I was a repeat offender then I would expect cancellation. Clarity on the process is all I was interested in. No offense intended.

Manifold

I guess we need to make a distinction between per-event policies, multi-event policies, and annual policies.

If an insurer pays a claim and chooses to not offer per-event insurance to that driver going forward, they're not actually cancelling, and they have every right to not offer that driver insurance.

I have an annual policy with unlimited track use for two drivers. If I make a claim, I would expect that my policy would remain in effect for the remainder of that policy year, but would understand that the insurer may choose to not offer renewal after the year is over.

Thundermoose

That feels like a reasonable expectation.

the_vetman

I wasn't going to comment but ran into this thread again tonight...

I also don't understand what all the hoopla is about.

I had a claim with On Track a few years ago. They were responsive and I received a check in not-long order. Steve did inform me that the rest of my policy (I had a 12 or 15 event policy at the time) would be cancelled and I would not be insured for 36 months. Fine. But here's the thing, it's not like you "lose" your premium because the policy is cancelled. They refund you for all the cancelled/unused events - I got thousands of dollars refunded. So it's really not a "loss" to the claimant except that you have to insure with someone else for the next 3 years (or more, should you wish).

How is this really different than any other type of insurance? You make a claim and either your premium goes up or (less often) you get cancelled. I'm not including "Accident Forgiveness" policies currently.

AFAIK, On Track has many happy customers. Having said that, and since excellence of their customer service and "best deal in town" have been brought up so many times, I have to say this: I did NOT appreciate some/many of the conversations that took place after my claim went through. Very accusatory. And, no, I won't get into specifics.

Oh, and each incident is evaluated for merits or demerits?? First I'm hearing of it...

jlanka

So as the poster who originally brought up the issue with being told I would be cancelled if I pursued my claim, I pretty much posted that so others would be aware. My situation was spinning clockwise at the top of the uphill at LRP, I immediately put 2 feet in and backed into the inner tire wall. It was raining lightly and I had rains on. Simon Kirkby said putting 2 feet in was the right move, since some guys would have tried to save it and hit the outer wall which has no tires. I had a 6 event package and this was something like event number 3. I was told about the policy and decided to cancel the claim, in case I had a more serious incident with the remainder of the 6 pack (which I didn't). I did not know about the policy up front. If I had known I probably wouldn't have purchased from On Track to begin with.

Anyway, I decided I wouldn't re-insure with On Track the next season and switched to Lockton. This was based on word of mouth from other track compadres who said they've submitted multiple claims with them and haven't been cancelled.

Again more of just an informative "here was my experience" post than any sort of accusatory intent.

Jeff

LuigiVampa

I want to add my $0.02 again.

Perhaps because I used to litigate insurance claims 20+ years ago I have a different, albeit, somewhat jaded view of the insurance industry. Even though I handled a much different class of insurance the concept of how insurance works remains constant - it is risk management. My car insurance DOUBLED when I added my 17 year old daughter last year. Is it fair? Based on actuarial tables the insurance industry would argue yes. I could argue that based on her mature demeanor, and the fact that she has a legendary race car driver (in his own mind) as an instructor, this reduces her driving risk. I'm certain the insurance companies would disagree.

I've spoken with Steve in person probably 1 - 2 times and I doubt he knows what I look like. I've insured with On-Track a few times through the years, as well as a few other companies, including having some racing policies. Luckily (knock on wood) I have never had a claim so I don't have a grievance with the process. Steve and I are not "friends" and I have no reason to shill for him.

That being said, I try to support people and companies that are active in the PCA, track and racing communities. I know nothing about the volume of Steve's business, his profitability, or anything else, but I imagine his primary reason, as I believe he stated above, was to help support the community. If you can do that, and make a few bucks, that is great. I never seek, but I have been fortunate enough, to do business with some of the people I have met at the track over the years. I think it is a great win-win and it helps to justify some of the costs of racing.

My bottom line is this - let's not beat up on one of our own. Steve's business practices are wholly reasonable and in line with the business practices of the insurance industry from what I have heard from people who have claims. Additionally, I see no evidence that On-Track is an underwriter, which means that Steve ultimately has to answer for his underwriting decisions otherwise his track product would be cancelled. In other threads we can see PCA's push towards HANS devices, as well as other safety requirements, and this is all part of minimizing risk for insurance purposes as well.

Again, my respects to people who have legitimate gripes with the insurance industry, but I am here to support people within the community, and at times, speak out against people who have hurt the community. Steve is a plus to the community so I do not understand the undertone of this thread. This post is not directed at anyone, as we are all here to express our opinions, but I wanted to provide my insight as an unbiased third-party.

RobC4sX51

Some great info and comments here. I used On Track the past several years (no claims thankfully) and liked their business model. Once I had a last minute car change and Steve Katz called me after business hours on a Friday to help me change the policy so I could be covered. But last year my son turned 18 and started driving a couple of DEs. We had to switch to Lockton as they allow 2 drivers at no extra cost. And On Track requires drivers to be 21. I have been satisfied with them so far too. I priced Haggerty but found their application and process less user friendly, though their street insurance was very reasonable. One last comment, in March I started looking at GT4s and put my 987.1 S up for sale. I called USAA to get a quote for a GT4 I was interested in. The first question the agent/representative asked me was “are you going to track the car (GT4)? I said “I didn’t know but if I did, I would get track insurance”. He said “if you track your GT4, we can’t insure you”. I questioned him, and he confirmed, that USAA would cancel our auto policies if I tracked a GT4! He then asked if I tracked my Cayman S, to which I replied “no”. This is crazy. I don’t know what to do but I also can’t switch insurers easily, we have home owner insurance, a farm insured, and an umbrella policy with them. So be forewarned.

Digitalwave

That is one reason I use Hagerty, I think there is something to be said about having your street and your track insurance with the same company.