redmill

I run a 944 turbo, so a suppression system seemed justified based on their reputation.
I purchased had a new AFF system 4 years ago and had it professionally installed. .
I have been careful to keep it out of any near freezing temperatures and to have it serviced every 2 years.

A buddy had the same system and had an incident at summit point this year, luckily the emergency trucks were there quickly as his system was worthless. Supposedly a very minimal amount of fluid came out at all.

Knowing I needed a service before the next race and winter was coming, i pulled out my bottle out of the car, its indicator gauge was in green.
I manually discharged the bottle outside and was totally surprised by the minimal amount of liquid expelled. I am not an engineer, so MAYBE the lack of restriction the tubing places affected my test. (saved on a boring video)
I would expect nearly 100% of the liquid to be expelled upon activation, not 10%, clearly most of it still sits in the bottle.

Another buddy, did the same test with similar crap results ( i don't believe he had AFF though)

I also expect 100% performance on the last day of the service interval as I would expect on the day of the service.

.... So... any thoughts on how to restore confidence in this 'safety' device? Is AFF just a crap product?

fatbillybob

I use ESS firecharger. It is the only consumer rechargeable unit. But being so some orgs will not pass tech. I even think SCCA allows them for cars before a certain date of the logbook but I could be wrong. IMO it is the best unit because you can consumer recharge and it is c02 cartridge operated and it is stupid simple to see if the cartridge is ready to rumble.

There is huge problem with AFF units in that the water foam mix sits in tank and corrodes the gauge. So your gauge can read green when there is NO pressure in your tank. I had this happen twice with SafeCraft units and they just blew me off. As a consumer I could change the gauge and pressurize the tank myself with my nitrogen bottle for my airjacks. So those system are partly consumer serviceable until you need their stamp to pass tech.

What every racer with AFFF system MUST do is look at the gauge in the morning and make sure that gauge moves by the afternoon indicating increase in pressure as the day gets hotter. An instant tipoff that your gauge is worthless is one that does not move at all during the entire day. I bet you got a dribble because your tank had no pressure and your gauge is green because its guts are corroded out.

Matt Romanowski

I think the Lifeline Systems are supposed to be some of the best, but I don't know for sure.

PLNewman

My Safecraft Model LT - FE36 (5 pound) system is plumbed to two spray-heads...one in the cabin, next to the gear shifter, which, I assume, is meant to protect the driver... and one in the engine compartment. After watching a friend's car burn to the ground recently at Road Atlanta, when a flat tire broke a brake line and ignited a fire in the wheel well, I added a hand-held 5 pound extinguisher on a quick-release holder in my cockpit. I've seen too many small fires turn into big fires, while waiting for the fire truck to arrive. If I'm going to be the first to arrive at the scene of a fire, I want to be able to address it without having to trigger the main system, which may, or may not, engage the affected area. Engine fire? No problem, hit the FIRE button and get out. But a wheel well fire? I want a hand-held.

wildcat077

I use the SPA Firesense system in my 944 , and having had two engine oil fires with my car i can vouch for the effectiveness of that system !
The oil filter gasket failed twice on my car due to a faulty OPRV and had it not been for one nozzle pointed directly at the oil filter and header
my car would have burned to the ground.I've seen two 944's burn down due to engine fires and cheap low capacity fire systems.

Good thing about the Firesense is that the agent doesn't cause a mess when it goes off , i have a nozzle pointed at my feet and both times
it didn't even leave a noticeable mark on my suit.It's a bit pricey and needs to be recertified after two years but it's cheaper than a new car ...
And yes, a portable unit is a good idea, i have a 2.5 unit bolted to the tunnel at arms reach !

ApexPerformance

The main issue we find on most AFFF systems is the fire extinguishing agent is pressurized and it breaks down the AFFF solution over time. ESS is not pressurized until you pull the cable to set off the system so their bottles empty 99% of the contents every time. That's why ESS does not have a guage on it since it's not pressured. Two ways for tech to check if it's full is weigh the bottle (which is a pain in the butt) and verify the non-rupture disc is still intact and not punctured.

From experience, SCCA and most sanctioning bodies accept ESS systems unless you are presenting a car for the first time with a log book, you must install the ESS system with the SFI sticker on it.

ESS has reviewed using non-freezable liquids with the AFFF but found that they break down the AFFF agent and it's not as effective unfortunately. So the main drawback with ESS is it will freeze if the bottle is left to freeze (the bottle will rupture) and it does not have a guage. Great news though is it is user-rechargable with a recharge kit for under $65. No waiting for a new bottle every time (unless you require an SFI marked bottle).

stownsen914

I've heard stories like this too many times about AFFF. It concerns me that this can happen with any frequency.

Bingo! I keep a small Halon hand-held in my cars in addition to a 10 lb. fire system in case of a small fire. I had occasion to use it when I was shaking down a car this past summer. An intake backfire caused the air filter to catch fire in the paddock. I put it out quickly with the handheld. I doubt the fire system would have even extinguished it because the airbox on my car only opens to the front, in the very front of the car. I don't want to watch my car burn because of a small, easy to extinguish fire.

Cory M

I do the same after having an experience where the fire system didn't fully put out the flames under the car, and both of the corner workers who came to help had EMPTY fire extinguishers. Don't count on anyone saving your car. The small weight penalty of an additional hand held extinguisher is well worth it if you ever need it.

CCA

I use a FireBottle FE-36 system in my car with one nozzle on me and the other on the engine. It is only a 5-lbs bottle which should be okay given that I'm only using 2 nozzles. When my bottle "times-out," I may consider a 10-lbs bottle, to buy me some extra time, should I need it. If I decide to add another a 3rd nozzle, I'll definitely need the 10 pounder. I have a spare Halon bottle, but can't use in SCCA... Wish I could find a hand held release mechanism to use at track/home, instead of it just sitting in storage.

fatbillybob

Freezing is an issue with pressurized AFFF systems too. The only good thing is they will be back to normal after the thaw. The bad thing is you got no protection with a frozen bottle. Before a race if I know my car is going to be below Zero I take the bottle out and it goes in my hotel room. I will also run about 15% antifreeze in the motor too. While I hate to run antifreeze on a racetrack, streetcars are nearly impossible to drain and refill and bleed effectively. Once spring comes it is 100% water in the motor.

Weighing the ESS bottle is the only way to know if you got 100% of the AFF in there. But there is a cheater way to see if you got something in there. Drive around and then unscrew the C02 cartridge and if soap bubbles come out you are happy.