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WGI Club Race Enduros

 
Old 01-19-2019, 02:15 PM
  #61  
chartersb
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When PCA originally expanded events to three days by adding enduros, car counts increased. A PCA Club Race event gave you a ton of track time for a reasonable cost. At the time, competitve SCCA amateur events were 2 days and with significantly less track time. Today we have the choice of racing in SCCA, AER, Champ Car and NASA to name a few. All except SCCA offer the same or more track time as PCA for reasonable cost at the same tracks. With so many alternatives and the same total number of racers, PCA will not have the same car counts as they had 10 years ago. Shortening a 3 day event so you can leave early by cutting track time won't increase car counts or make the WGI event any more appealing. According to the 146 respondents, shorter is more appealing to half and less appealing to the other half. The AER Porsche guys I talked to will race the Glen with AER because they love that type of a full immersion event rather than the "shorter, more restrictive PCA Club Race".

If the objective is to get more racers to buy the WGI enduro, dont shorten it make it more appealing:
Try what Sam M suggested, have a 90 minute endiuro on Saturday with Sprints on Sunday.
Make the 90 minute enduro worth triple points
Cut the enduro price and increase the basic registration fee.
Start earlier in the morning.
Have a PCA National Enduro championship

I'm sure there are other ideas worth considering as well.
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Old 01-19-2019, 03:25 PM
  #62  
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I'm sorry to see where this ended up. Running a 60 minute Enduro so people get home earlier and penalizing cars that can't run 55 min on a tank of fuel is ridiculous but let's see how it goes.

The region (not PCA) takes the financial risk so this is their call so it's Pete we will need to provide feedback to. Something like an Enduro championship or double points would certainly help to get Enduro car count up and improve the financial picture for the regions.
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Old 01-19-2019, 04:05 PM
  #63  
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I still like the idea of rotating the enduro each year so everyone gets the last group once every three years. If it is your year and you do not want to be last, then don't sign up. Shortening the enduro because a few fluffers have to make an early flight is ridiculous.
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Old 01-19-2019, 04:19 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by chartersb View Post
When PCA originally expanded events to three days by adding enduros, car counts increased. A PCA Club Race event gave you a ton of track time for a reasonable cost. At the time, competitve SCCA amateur events were 2 days and with significantly less track time. Today we have the choice of racing in SCCA, AER, Champ Car and NASA to name a few. All except SCCA offer the same or more track time as PCA for reasonable cost at the same tracks. With so many alternatives and the same total number of racers, PCA will not have the same car counts as they had 10 years ago. Shortening a 3 day event so you can leave early by cutting track time won't increase car counts or make the WGI event any more appealing. According to the 146 respondents, shorter is more appealing to half and less appealing to the other half. The AER Porsche guys I talked to will race the Glen with AER because they love that type of a full immersion event rather than the "shorter, more restrictive PCA Club Race".

If the objective is to get more racers to buy the WGI enduro, dont shorten it make it more appealing:
Try what Sam M suggested, have a 90 minute endiuro on Saturday with Sprints on Sunday.
Make the 90 minute enduro worth triple points
Cut the enduro price and increase the basic registration fee.
Start earlier in the morning.
Have a PCA National Enduro championship

I'm sure there are other ideas worth considering as well.
I think any of these ideas are better than shortening the enduro.

Originally Posted by Frank 993 C4S View Post
I'm sorry to see where this ended up. Running a 60 minute Enduro so people get home earlier and penalizing cars that can't run 55 min on a tank of fuel is ridiculous but let's see how it goes.

The region (not PCA) takes the financial risk so this is their call so it's Pete we will need to provide feedback to. Something like an Enduro championship or double points would certainly help to get Enduro car count up and improve the financial picture for the regions.
Never understood people complaining about being last. Happens to me all the time and it is part of the weekend.

Originally Posted by certz View Post
I still like the idea of rotating the enduro each year so everyone gets the last group once every three years. If it is your year and you do not want to be last, then don't sign up. Shortening the enduro because a few fluffers have to make an early flight is ridiculous.
My Sebring flight home is 9pm. It is what it is. Only time I get to go home early on Sunday is when something bad happens, like blowing up two motors in one weekend.
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Old 01-19-2019, 04:22 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by LuigiVampa View Post
My Sebring flight home is 9pm. It is what it is. Only time I get to go home early on Sunday is when something bad happens, like blowing up two motors in one weekend.
Exactly. My drive home from WGI is 10-11 hours. I am willing to leave late if it means a 90 minute enduro - besides, even the earlier enduro does not get me out of there before 3PM. As it is, I am skipping Watkins this year.
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:02 AM
  #66  
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The financial risk at Watkins Glen is carried by Zone 1, not any individual region. If it's a risk for Zone 1, charge more. Or do something to make the entire event more appealing. More appealing means more cars at $700+- entry fee per car. Add a few more enduro racers and you add $150 per car but with the same or fewer overall cars it's not much of a financial boost if any. Shorter sprints and a long sprint with a pit stop... gotta be a better idea. Start Thursday and everyone can go home Saturday night.
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:14 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by chartersb View Post
The financial risk at Watkins Glen is carried by Zone 1, not any individual region. If it's a risk for Zone 1, charge more. Or do something to make the entire event more appealing. More appealing means more cars at $700+- entry fee per car. Add a few more enduro racers and you add $150 per car but with the same or fewer overall cars it's not much of a financial boost if any. Shorter sprints and a long sprint with a pit stop... gotta be a better idea. Start Thursday and everyone can go home Saturday night.
Again, RUN THE ENDURO SATURDAY ,

Simple solution.

This could also serve as a test this year to see if in fact those that dont enter simply are not interested in running an Enduro.

I dont see how a 60 min enduro appeals to anyone. Look at AER's success.

I'd also be ok with Starting Thursday if its that big a deal to be home earlier.
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:34 AM
  #68  
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Can someone post a simple poll ( cant seem to do it on my phone)

90 min enduro on SATURDAY at Clash

Yes

No
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:42 PM
  #69  
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YES
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:57 PM
  #70  
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60 minute enduro SUCKS. My car will probably run out of gas before finishing. But Glen rocks! I'm in.
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Old 01-20-2019, 09:06 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by wellcoached View Post
Again, RUN THE ENDURO SATURDAY
Agreed. That’s the Road America schedule which I’ve always like. 2 sprints on Sunday and you can still finish by probably 2pm.
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Old 01-21-2019, 01:04 AM
  #72  
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I still don't understand what problem that a 60 minute Enduro and shortened Sprints is solving. In 2017 there were 217 Sprint racers and 87 Enduro racers. Last year, 2018, there were 211 Sprint racers and 136 Enduro racers. That seems like a reasonable amount given the 2017 turnout. Part of the smaller car count in 2017 for all the races was the additional run group with the Clubsport Trophy East Series. If the goal is to get the total car count up, then making the event a whole bunch of short races makes it less appealing. Make a big change; Run 90 minute Enduros on Saturday (see Sam's vote thingy) and regular length Sprints on Sunday. Make the Enduros the big deal of the weekend.
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Old 01-21-2019, 01:18 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by wellcoached View Post
Again, RUN THE ENDURO SATURDAY ,

Simple solution.

This could also serve as a test this year to see if in fact those that dont enter simply are not interested in running an Enduro.

I dont see how a 60 min enduro appeals to anyone. Look at AER's success.

I'd also be ok with Starting Thursday if its that big a deal to be home earlier.

This is what PCA and POC does for the california festival of speed at fontana. Enduro on saturday
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:41 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by chartersb View Post
I still don't understand what problem that a 60 minute Enduro and shortened Sprints is solving. In 2017 there were 217 Sprint racers and 87 Enduro racers. Last year, 2018, there were 211 Sprint racers and 136 Enduro racers. That seems like a reasonable amount given the 2017 turnout. Part of the smaller car count in 2017 for all the races was the additional run group with the Clubsport Trophy East Series.
this is a solution to an invented problem. a handful or drivers who fly in want to get home sooner. But this is the original email which says they want to stay “interesting and exciting” and “relevant to the racer” ??

ORIGINAL EMAIL SENT TO RACERS BY WGI RACE CHAIR

From: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 10:56 AM
Subject: PCA Watkins Glen Club Race

PCA ZONE 1

In an effort to keep the PCA Club Race at Watkins Glen interesting and exciting, I am asking for your input to the following question:

What would you think of having 2 - 40 minute Sprint races on Sunday instead of the single Enduro Race as is the current format?

For the purposes of this question, please assume that the race format would be similar to Saturday but the finishing time would be earlier as there would not be any "Warm Up" on Sunday.

Please email me with your opinion and any comments you may have.

This is purely hypothetical at this point, but we want your input so we can keep the event relevant to you, the racer.

Thanks,
Jim

James D. Morgan
Zone 1 Club Race Co-
[email protected]
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:56 PM
  #75  
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Ok, now I understand. Get rid of the 90 min race and replace it with two 40 minute races. Oh wait, lets compromise and have one 60 minute race with a 5 minute break; and no warm-up session. So we'll have a shorter race weekend than past years. That is the opposite of "keeping the PCA Club Race at Watkins Glen interesting and exciting".
A 3x points 90 minute endur ( with warm-up) on Saturday with Sprint races on Sunday. If people want to leave early they can skip a Sprint race or two or leave after their pit stop on Saturday.
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