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i saw them use lights like this at a Moto America motorcycle race, its an investment but i think having these lights in between flagging stations would be great.
One of our local tracks has lights at 3 stations and during a practice session, myself and another driver completely missed the yellow light, the followed by a red light. We both saw the flag station waving his flag and complied. The lights are not as noticeable unless they are very close to the track Other drivers also mentioned the lights are not as visible as you would think.
No need to reinvent the wheel in regards to safety communication. A properly waved flag gets the drivers' attention every time.
Once at COTA, I (as well as another driver) didn't see a flag , but the flag guy didn't stick his arm out while waving the flag; the idiot was waving it inside the flag station. We couldn't see it in the shadows due to the sun's angle. That is why I said a PROPERLY waved flag works. I've worked corners and waving a flag isn't hard, you just need to use common sense.
Cota is the only place in 22 tracks i have raced where this is a problem. The flagger sometimes does not know this. If it happens there call them on it. They need to know and are willing to comply because they want to exert their power to control their piece of track
To do it "right" I would think that the track would have a spotter network, the corner workers are already wired.....when a dangerous situation occurs, blast it out on a dedicated emergency channel. Downside, you'll need a radio in your car, hooked into your helmet. In light of recent developments, may be worth looking into.
My understanding is that at most tracks, latency of flags is a potential problem, because human flangers have to radio control, and control has to the tell other flangers what to do. That can happen quickly, but Circumstances and human failures can cause delays. It’s expensive but a video system wired to a proper control room can reduce at least one leg of communication failure. I’ve heard of one track in he NE that is planning to do this. We will see.
Seems like a good idea to have a system like this, as long as it supplements flaggers and doesn't replace critical flaggers and/or manned flag stations.
I remember back maybe 10-20 years ago I was at Thunderhill and there was a bad wreck at turn 9. A Porsche spun in the exit process and got collected by a big V8-based American car. The Porsche driver was in bad shape but thankfully survived. That corner exit is blind.
If I recall correctly, when we first drove turn 9, we loved it, but did not have any issues with the position of the worker box.
After that wreck, there was some discussion of augmentation-- perhaps a light somewhere on the right (it is a left hander) that could come on with worker or race director control. I remember speaking with several people in the community about the possibility that something like this could work.
Well, shortly thereafter a light like that appeared just where we had envisioned it might help.
I don't think that the light was a result of litigation or discussions amongst/pressure from racers. I could be wrong of course, but my sense then and now is that the light was installed because the people at the track (owned by SCCA) had their own process for investigating opportunities for improvement, made decisions based on that work, and then executed a plan.
I remember a few years ago, someone developed a cell phone based alert system for in car notification of flags. Norcal NASA decided to give it a try. Some folks bought mounts and ran with their in-use cell phones, others implemented old phones and maybe augmented their cell plans to try it. Not sure what conclusions NASA and the developer reached on that.
I remember a race at Sears Point last year or the year before where we had a bunch of people miss a standing yellow at turn 10. Issue was in 11 about 2/3 of the way round.
The turn 10 flag station there seems to have evolved over the years. It is in a small box which is on a big wall (signage). And you naturally look up at it in a somewhat perilous situation, especially if you you are in traffic.
I remember thinking about the station and speaking about it with fellow racers... that box could definitely benefit from a nearby light. If you are in traffic, you often cannot even see the box.
For pro events, they have spotters and perhaps in-car electronics. Most of us don't, whether racing or DE driving. Hopefully the owners of Sears Point will be considering an augmenting light there in the future since the box is so hard to see on that big wall.
My points in all of this:
1. "New tech" by itself may not be a panacea
2. Trust that the key people (like those at places like Sears Point, Laguna and Thunderhill) are engaged in trying to keep drivers, workers, crew and spectators safe and that is an ongoing process
Lights still require you to be looking at them. If you're not seeing flag stations you won't see lights. In car radios are great for racers but not practical for those doing a few DEs a year. The only solution is for people to slow down until they can process all of the information coming their way.
We have a large track and often several stations are unmanned. A supplemental system using light or even the big advertising LED displays (like bright low resolution TVs) would be positive. If the system details can be worked out over time and a lot of testing at tracks where it is working well, perhaps with a master controller and video system we wouldn’t need as many corner workers to run a track. As a bonus, video feeds would make it easy-ish to televise events. Maybe a few of the local TV channels could get volunteers to edit and try showing a club race instead of a soap opera rerun once in a while.
I’ve run club level events in Australia using lights, as in been the race director / clerk of course. It’s fantastic. You can do things that are just not possible without them. Like have one person operate 2-3 stations, go full course yellow or red at the touch of a button, and deploy limited resources much more effectively. You’ll always need trackside workers but they can be out of harms way or better protected when they do need to attend to an incident.
I've been surprised to not see more of these type systems. I don't know all the details, but I do know Whelen has systems along with others that have been installed at a few tracks.
So there are two possible issues to consider:
1. Visibility of flag stations and/or unmanned flag stations. There has been some discussion that an unmanned flag station may have been a factor in the recent incident at Laguna.
2. People not noticing (or paying attention to) flag stations.
I don't know if the light systems will help #2, but can help with #1.
When I instruct, I mention flags, flag station positions, and forward visibility to my students every single session on track. There is simply no excuse for not knowing where flag stations are or missing them (or a displayed flag).
I have to disagree a little with my friend Morsini. I don't have any experienced with lights instead of workers, and only modest experience with lights to augment workers.
My belief is that lights to augment workers can be a really good thing if implemented well as you can possibly put them in places where you cannot put worker boxes. And you can use them as augmentation in situations where compromises exist.
I think I mentioned Sears Point turn 10 previously. Big advertising wall, tiny worker box. Important braking zone, modest run-off and you cannot completely see around the bend. And sometimes hard to see the box whey you are in traffic.
In the picture below you can get an idea... sorry about the lack of optical clarity. I was already shutting it down because I saw the waving yellow really early and I wasn't racing anybody. The accident was about 60% around 11. The NASA safety truck and workers were on track (NASA does hot towing).
10-17-2018, 05:07 PM
