Basically the only issue is if you want to give your student a ride and they don't have a HANS. This is easily solved by the student either NOT getting a ride in your car or borrowing a HANS from a friend or the club, if the club can provide one.

Not the end of the world if the student can't get a ride in our cars guys...

 

In the past I have opted to give a student a ride and NEITHER of us use harnesses. We use the OEM 3 pt belts. My car is a street-able track car (GT4) so I've got this option. Obviously a race prepped car won't have 3 pt belts.

I always slow it down when giving student rides but there is still risk to both of us. In the interest of equal restraint - I stopped giving rides about 4 years ago to anyone without a HNR unless I opted for 3 pt belts. I decided the risk/liability wasn't worth it, and I refuse to put myself in a harness without head/neck restraint.

I opted for additional safety with a Simpson Hybrid device for when I'm instructing in cars with 3 pt belts. Since I prefer a Schroth Flex in my car which has proprietary hardware for connecting to the helmet - I needed a second helmet to work with the Simpson hybrid which is compatible with HANS.

I've been carrying two helmets, two HNR devices to events and it's not a big deal. Yes it involved a bunch of money and I'm lucky I have the resources to commit to safety. I made the choice to spend the money.

I also will not drive a student's car on track. I've seen instructors wad up student cars in perfect conditions. I'm not a "pro" and I'm not getting paid. It's supposed to be fun. I could not relax and enjoy driving someone else's car - even at a reduced pace.

PCA does NOT cover you for physical damage to anyone else's car. Whomever made that statement is misinformed. Track insurance would provide coverage but the policy is typically written for 1-2 named drivers (you can name your instructor or a second driver) for a specific car. I am not taking out extra insurance to drive a student's car.

 

As a lot of you guys are instructors I'll come at this from being a recent graduate to Blue/Yellow Solo with 4 years experience. In regards to the new rule if you have a 5/6 point you must have a HNR, I never considered anything but that combo and no one I know with similar time on the track thinks otherwise either. It's the same in a lot of action sports; snowboarding, skiing, freestyle BMX etc. 10-20 years ago it was very rare to see a helmet, when the governing contest bodies required them for competition it slowly became trendy/cool to wear what your idol was wearing in the X-Games. Now, 99% of the people on a ski hill are wearing helmets, not because it was mandated but because your now not the only dork doing it, it's the accepted norm and it can really save your ***. After 45 years on the mountain I even bought one two years ago, keeps your head warmer too. I believe this trend is happening in DE as well, drivers seem enthusiastic to get in to seat/hans/harness combos. It's the guys in $90K+ plus street cars who have the "hard decision" to make if they want to put a roll bar in to strap it to.

On a related note, I was surprised to see the F1 safety car driver not wearing a Hans in Baku this weekend while, they were showing in car footage and he had a race seat with 5/6 point harness but no HNR. I assumed maybe he needs to keep his head on a bigger swivel then a Hans would allow but he does have a co-pilot. Thought it odd.

 

 

For what it's worth, I've run with 3 or so different PCA regions. The lack of discipline in regard to safety is surprising (compared to HOD and NASA, at least). I don't see this new rule being enforced, unfortunately.

I've been asked to do ride alongs with other instructors (in their cars) with 4 points, ancient harnesses with no camlock (passenger side only, of course), brake pads that are paper thin, etc.

For the record, I'm all for new rules in the pursuit of safety. However, first I think PCA needs to do a better job of auditing the rules they already have. Seeing "senior" instructors out there session after session with 4 point passenger belts is infuriating. If they look the other way when the know-it-all instructor insists his 4 point harness is safe for him and his passenger, why won't they look the other way on this hans requirement?

 

It's a European/non-USA thing. Numerous videos out there of people wearing harnesses but no HANS. For example, Walter Rohrl driving (and crashing) a 918 Spyder wearing harnesses but no HANS. F1 pace car was "not that surprising" in the sense that ROW do it so frequently.

I wear harnesses and HANS, and recommend them to others. However, I have to agree with Kevin to an extent. Troubling is the increasing rules and regulations. Case in point: some regions require ALL advanced (and some Intermediate) drivers to install race seats and harnesses. Say what??? Yes, I agree to their utility and safety, but to require it of everyone?? So Joe Schmoe can't drive his, say, street M3 on the track in Advanced +/- Intermediate unless he rips out the OEM seats and installs race seats, roll bars or cage, harnesses, and HANS?? WTF.

Don't hold our hands and baby us, Dad (PCA). For the record, I would fully recommend the aforementioned. But to require it (or "no track time for you") is troubling....

Sorry for going OT. As far as the new rule, I'm fine with it as long as they can resolve the student ride-along issue. Club loaners aren't the answer as student helmets most likely don't have anchors and different HNRs have different anchor/mounting systems anyway. Ain't gonna work unless all the regions get several (5+) helmets and several HNRs. And unless the clubs have over 10 of each, there WILL be a sh*t show of who rented what HANS, where are they, why hasn't s/he returned it yet, 4 other students need the same thing RIGHT NOW, chasing people around the paddock, etc., etc., etc.

 

Maybe this is a better way of stating the issue:

The rule says I must provide a HNR to my student if I install harnesses.... But there is nothing that says his helmet has the appropriate provisions for the HNR that I provide.

 

You do realize that not every section of the country has multiple options like you do in TX, don't you. And not every body is getting paid to travel.

What I meant was that you are plugging for MSF IMHO.

 

The rule does not state you or the region must supply a student with a head and neck restraint. Regions have the option of providing loaners but it is not mandated.

 

I have to admit that when I first heard that this rule was being considered (a few years ago) I was not happy, Then someone explained that driving with a harness and no head/neck protection is only using part of the system (ala Dale Earnhardt). They explained that a harness holds you upright and tight to the seat, leaving your arms and legs free to operate without having to use them to brace ourselves (like we have to do with 3-point belts). But now we have the weakest part of our body (our neck) left to absorb the shock of an impact (not good). The Hans (or other head/neck) device now protects the next, so we have a complete system.

I was sold.

How will this be implemented? Probably regions will need to buy devices that can attach to loaner helmets.

Of course, the instructor always has the choice of only using the lap belt part of the harness...

 

What region mandates that? I've never seen or heard of a region demanding certain gear be installed in HPDE'ers cars...

 

It is the PCA DE Minimum Standards
Also, the Zone 8 rules cover equipment requirements for DE cars. Note that regions are not required to follow Zone 8 rules, although all that I am aware of do... But we are required to comply with the PCA National DE Minimum Standards.

My biggest gripe is that regions are not allowed to be involved in the development of these "minimum standards."
I've been complaining about that for years. Zone 8 and several other regions and organizations (including the rules process for PCA Club Racing rules) provide opportunity for members to introduce and comment on proposed rules before they are cast in stone.

 

Just to be clear, PCA is MANDATING that advanced and intermediate drivers install race seats and harnesses in their cars or they can't run in those groups?

 

PCA National Minimum Standards do not mandate this. However Regions and Zones may chose to mandate more stringent rules than those listed in the minimum standards.

 

Nope. That doesn't meet the equal rule. Both sides have to be the same.