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Rob Wilson, racing coach

 
Old 04-03-2018, 04:35 PM
  #61  
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Wow, I step away for a day and this thing blows up into a 4-page thread.

Some of the responses here advance the discussion, some just seem like personal attacks, but whatever.

If you see my original post, this is not an attack on coaches. I get that a coach can be hugely valuable at the lower ranks of the sport. I also get that a coach can by useful at the very top level, for purposes such as motivation, getting a second perspective, etc. What I am challenging is specifically Rob Wilson's claims that he can make even guys like Hamilton faster. Would you not say that someone who says that he can improve the world's very best driver's lap times is making quite a big claim?

How many hours does Hamilton spend looking at data and talking with his race engineers about every little input he made driving the car? How much time does he spend on simulators? How many pages of notes do guys like Hamilton have on every racetrack they've ever been to. My point is that these guys aren't James Hunt types who just rely on supernatural talent and bravery. They are analytical and very cognizant of their own technique, and no doubt study their competitor's as well. Sure, a coach can help them get more motivated, or give them a second perspective. But that is different than what Rob Wilson is claiming he does. Rob Wilson makes the specific claim that he knows something no one else does, but when asked to explain exactly what that is, he uses mystical language like "flat car."

There's an interesting thread concerning Rob Wilson on F1 technical. (And no the guy questioning Wilson's approach is not me.)
https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13034
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:43 PM
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I tend to think of it this way.... At that level (or really any level for that matter) think of the driver as CEO. He has may tasks to master, car control is just one of many things that divide his time (Physical fitness, PR, just to name a few). I'm sure they have coaches (VP's) for each of these activities. The drivers may be phenomenal it putting it all together but need a coach to boil the ocean to find that last .001% and present it to him in a meaningful digestible fashion..
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jscott82 View Post
I tend to think of it this way.... At that level (or really any level for that matter) think of the driver as CEO. He has may tasks to master, car control is just one of many things that divide his time (Physical fitness, PR, just to name a few). I'm sure they have coaches (VP's) for each of these activities. The drivers may be phenomenal it putting it all together but need a coach to boil the ocean to find that last .001% and present it to him in a meaningful digestible fashion..
Or even the .1%, which in a competitive series can be significant...
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
Wow, I step away for a day and this thing blows up into a 4-page thread.

Some of the responses here advance the discussion, some just seem like personal attacks, but whatever.

If you see my original post, this is not an attack on coaches. I get that a coach can be hugely valuable at the lower ranks of the sport. I also get that a coach can by useful at the very top level, for purposes such as motivation, getting a second perspective, etc. What I am challenging is specifically Rob Wilson's claims that he can make even guys like Hamilton faster. Would you not say that someone who says that he can improve the world's very best driver's lap times is making quite a big claim?

How many hours does Hamilton spend looking at data and talking with his race engineers about every little input he made driving the car? How much time does he spend on simulators? How many pages of notes do guys like Hamilton have on every racetrack they've ever been to. My point is that these guys aren't James Hunt types who just rely on supernatural talent and bravery. They are analytical and very cognizant of their own technique, and no doubt study their competitor's as well. Sure, a coach can help them get more motivated, or give them a second perspective. But that is different than what Rob Wilson is claiming he does. Rob Wilson makes the specific claim that he knows something no one else does, but when asked to explain exactly what that is, he uses mystical language like "flat car."

There's an interesting thread concerning Rob Wilson on F1 technical. (And no the guy questioning Wilson's approach is not me.)
https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13034
Flat car is in no way mystical language.

What he does is to tie kinesthetic training/awareness to vehicle dynamics and makes drivers reflect on a level of feel that is perhaps beyond data.

You either get it or you don't. The thread blowing up was a hint
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
What I am challenging is specifically Rob Wilson's claims that he can make even guys like Hamilton faster. Would you not say that someone who says that he can improve the world's very best driver's lap times is making quite a big claim?

Rob Wilson makes the specific claim that he knows something no one else does, but when asked to explain exactly what that is, he uses mystical language like "flat car."
No, it's not "quite a big claim," if the data supports it!

No, he doesn't make that claim "that he knows something no one else does."

He shares an approach, that if adopted by the driver, allows the driver to transcend their current level of performance.

Happens at all levels, with all drivers. Even the best.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jdistefa View Post
Flat car is in no way mystical language.

What he does is to tie kinesthetic training/awareness to vehicle dynamics and makes drivers reflect on a level of feel that is perhaps beyond data.

You either get it or you don't.
Bingo.

The data is a validation tool, not a guide...
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
Wow, I step away for a day and this thing blows up into a 4-page thread.

Some of the responses here advance the discussion, some just seem like personal attacks, but whatever.

If you see my original post, this is not an attack on coaches. I get that a coach can be hugely valuable at the lower ranks of the sport. I also get that a coach can by useful at the very top level, for purposes such as motivation, getting a second perspective, etc. What I am challenging is specifically Rob Wilson's claims that he can make even guys like Hamilton faster. Would you not say that someone who says that he can improve the world's very best driver's lap times is making quite a big claim?

How many hours does Hamilton spend looking at data and talking with his race engineers about every little input he made driving the car? How much time does he spend on simulators? How many pages of notes do guys like Hamilton have on every racetrack they've ever been to. My point is that these guys aren't James Hunt types who just rely on supernatural talent and bravery. They are analytical and very cognizant of their own technique, and no doubt study their competitor's as well. Sure, a coach can help them get more motivated, or give them a second perspective. But that is different than what Rob Wilson is claiming he does. Rob Wilson makes the specific claim that he knows something no one else does, but when asked to explain exactly what that is, he uses mystical language like "flat car."

There's an interesting thread concerning Rob Wilson on F1 technical. (And no the guy questioning Wilson's approach is not me.)
https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13034
Did you read this? 12 of 17 F1 drivers in 2017 used him. He talks about data, but it's not the whole story. https://www.autoclassics.com/posts/r...stra-but-why-1

Rob Wilson also seems like a Yoda type of coach... he assesses the driver's style and then assesses it.

In Steve Machett's book "Life in the Fast Lane", where he chronicles the 1994 F1 season from start to finish, he talks about data and how it's 2 dimensional and there were chassis (they built 9 that year for Benetton) where Michael Schumacher said there was something wrong with the chassis, but his engineers said there was nothing backing up his claims in the data. Only after stripping the car down from every nut and bolt did they discover a small fault in the chassis tub, a small tolerance difference that could not be picked up by the data, but was felt by the buttometer.

As much as data has evolved, having a feel for the car and what it's doing underneath you is still vital.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:37 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
but when asked to explain exactly what that is, he uses mystical language like "flat car."
Multiple coaches have used that exact phrase w me. It’s not mystical, it means control weight transfer...ie the nose under braking and rear under power and steering the car to take a set by being smooth and quick without upsetting the chassis.

My friend, the thread got big b/c the idea you think you are entitled to evidence and have standing to challenge others in this way is hilarious and not a little sad. That you seem unaware of your perceived privilege makes it even more funny, hence the responses.

Your last thread(s) trashed AIM. The very first post was “this company doesnt have its **** together.” yet it works for everyone else. This thread trashes a coach who doesnt give a **** what any of us think and you have never met or worked with.

Maybe sit a couple plays out man...
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:08 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
Wow, I step away for a day and this thing blows up into a 4-page thread.

Some of the responses here advance the discussion, some just seem like personal attacks, but whatever.

If you see my original post, this is not an attack on coaches. I get that a coach can be hugely valuable at the lower ranks of the sport. I also get that a coach can by useful at the very top level, for purposes such as motivation, getting a second perspective, etc. What I am challenging is specifically Rob Wilson's claims that he can make even guys like Hamilton faster. Would you not say that someone who says that he can improve the world's very best driver's lap times is making quite a big claim?

How many hours does Hamilton spend looking at data and talking with his race engineers about every little input he made driving the car? How much time does he spend on simulators? How many pages of notes do guys like Hamilton have on every racetrack they've ever been to. My point is that these guys aren't James Hunt types who just rely on supernatural talent and bravery. They are analytical and very cognizant of their own technique, and no doubt study their competitor's as well. Sure, a coach can help them get more motivated, or give them a second perspective. But that is different than what Rob Wilson is claiming he does. Rob Wilson makes the specific claim that he knows something no one else does, but when asked to explain exactly what that is, he uses mystical language like "flat car."

There's an interesting thread concerning Rob Wilson on F1 technical. (And no the guy questioning Wilson's approach is not me.)
https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13034
I'm not going to pile on.

What I will say is that I understand your initial question/statement in that it is a big statement to say you make F1 drivers faster. Its also normal to say "how does he do that?"

I'd say the issue was your phrasing, because I agree somewhat with the premise of the question, although I do not agree with saying he is BS. I'm just curious about his unique teaching method and how he gets results.
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