mark kibort

Look, there are REASONS that the windows are to be left open in a DE or RACE. they CLEARLY out weigh, gas mileage, messed up hair, keeping water out if you crash in a lake, some dirt entering the car when you spin, etc.
1. its easier for a driver to get out of a car in an emergency. you can only imagine if your car is on fire in a crash, when you cant open the door and want to get out..... (and you dont have one of those window breakers in your pocket)
2. corner workers can yell instructions to drivers of disabled cars.
3. Hand signals are much more clear for left passes
4. in a crash, there is MUCH more debris to clean up if the windows break thus making much more of a delay for other participants.

this is why you will not have a tremendous amount of luck trying to convince experienced race organizers to allow for close window in street cars /or race cars unless they are designed for easy popout (eg; cup cars)

Kobalt

^ Wonder why it is supposed to be safe in Europe with windows up?

There must be some data from Europe to support if windows up is more dangerous than window down.

tstafford

At PSDS they require windows up (I was black flagged for opening the window). Their rationale is that with the windows down the side airbag is much less effective.

ProCoach

^^This^^

TRAKCAR

I'm happy to help, surely someone on this forum is smarter, more convincing and eloquent on these pages to put forth that effort.
I really think it would be much, much safer and that should be reason alone.
But as a bonus its also more comfortable, better value for participants during rainy track weekends (I've cancelled due to rain, I wouldn't with windows closed) and better for our cars interiors.

TRAKCAR

I can see my old breath

Jabs1542

TRAKCAR

^^ Thanks Jay!

TRAKCAR

That in itself is a reason to get one and hang out with you more often!
Hope to see you at Pikes Peak!

1. In the very rare occasion that a DE car catches on fire due to a crash (I haven't seen one in the last 500 track days), I will take my chances that the emergency rescue vehicle gets to me on time. The response times have been phenomenal. I actually think there are times that the window structure helps from deforming and keeps the doors operational longer. German car manufacturers see to think so. Anyway, I am much moire likely to die from crap flying through the car then a car fire. That I am sure of.
2. If they are right next to the car you cant hear anything, if they are you can with the windows closed.
3. Nothing is more clear then turn signals. Everyone uses it every day, everyone sees it every day. Much, more clear then flailing arm out of the window that almost get ripped out of your shoulder socket. Example guy sticks his arm all the way out the window to the left, only to take .5 seconds to bend his arm ver the roof to the right. In that half a second your committing to the wrong side of the car. Or something flaps around half out the window and one mistakes it for a glove/point by.. It seems the race car drivers have the hardest time giving clear point by's..
4.This is a moot pint because if there is glass to clean up, the track is going to be cold for a bit while they clean up up the rest of the car parts, it will just get sweeped up with the kitty litter..

I think your clairvoyance system is broken..

TRAKCAR

The Germans especially know a thing or two about high speed crash safety. Nowhere do they investigate crash damage results like they do in Europe and they have learned from it.

Exactly, very telling.
Strange that Porsche is affiliated with both PSDS and less so with PCA but the approach to keeping customers safe in terms of point by's and occupant protection they directly contradict themselves.
I think PCA can take the lead in this through the perfect proven safety records of PSDS that is run by people who's opinion many participants much value and set an example for all other DE organizers.

gbuff

Some of the private clubs I run with in Canada allow windows up and using turn signals--just don't be a doof and leave it on for 3 laps

Gary

Thundermoose

My driver cooling system is windows down .

mdrums

and what you do not realize that in modern day cars it is safer to have the windows up for the air bags. Ever seen the air bags deploy with the windows down? I have ( Daytona Bus Stop 2007 GT3) and they go right out the window flapping in the wind. Also windows up keeps arms in place and from going outside the car in a roll over. Race cars have a window net on drivers side....street cars do not. Running windows down is wrong, always has been especially in modern day cars with air bags and safety glass windows.

I use turn signals for point by. Much much safer to keep my hands on the wheel at 100+mph than putting my arm out the window!!!!

mdrums

I did a few years ago and also spoke with Chin Trackdays as well. No response...ZERO...from PCA. I mentioned this to the local PCA track chairman at a DE and got some stupid response like this is the way its always been done and is safer. I said who says its safer?...its not safer....they are just so closed minded!!!!!!

Chin said it's up to the tracks and what they require. I do not totally believe that statement since at Barber the Porsche school requires windows to be up but Chin says the track says they have to be down..BUT....then when it rains they tell us to put the windows up. Geesh!!!....makes zero sense now doesn't it?!?!?!?

My car like 99% of the cars running in DE's has air bags....multiple air bags. For the side air bags to do there job it is fact that the windows need to be UP. Although I have seen a GT3 crash at Daytona...windows were down and the steering wheel air bag got sucked right out the drivers window. It did absolutely zero good in protecting the driver.

ProCoach

The idea that windows keep your extremities inside the car in an accident serious enough to break the glass and deploy airbags is absurd...

If you're paranoid about that, buy harnesses for the car and use arm restraints, at least for the window opening side of the car. Sheesh.