Coasting- seriously, for real?
12-07-2017, 07:47 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
exactly.
you left out the "zero throttle aka, closed throttle, or coasting"? Thats the point of this entire thread
although there are many factors, the basic premise is that if you are in a High HP, timewise , you will have a lot less full throttle than a low HP car, and thats exactly what i said.
Now, if you want to break it out by % of a lap that you are at full throttle, it might be the equalizing factor, but it strays from the purpose of the original comment.
coasting is (as has been defined) when you are off throttle. you will be off throttle less with a low HP car because of many reasons, one being grip. bigger HP cars will always have to be more careful in adding throttle, where a low HP car, such as miatas, they can be WOT on many places on the track, that a high HP cannot..............just look at when a low HP car adds throttle out of a turn. its earlier and at a higher throttle position..... it will also be longer and because the top speeds are less, the throttle will be able to be applied CLOSER , to the approaching turns. (generally)
if you disagree, it would be interesting to understand your logic as to why.
i said below:
I don't believe the data supports you. I just looked at some data I have from Watkins Glen with all very good drivers (2 champions included). Average throttle position not including zeros (only open throttle) 800 HP 55.69%, 500 HP 64.94%, 350 HP 67.74%, 200 HP 59%. I don't have the time to look at percent of lap right now.
although there are many factors, the basic premise is that if you are in a High HP, timewise , you will have a lot less full throttle than a low HP car, and thats exactly what i said.
Now, if you want to break it out by % of a lap that you are at full throttle, it might be the equalizing factor, but it strays from the purpose of the original comment.
coasting is (as has been defined) when you are off throttle. you will be off throttle less with a low HP car because of many reasons, one being grip. bigger HP cars will always have to be more careful in adding throttle, where a low HP car, such as miatas, they can be WOT on many places on the track, that a high HP cannot..............just look at when a low HP car adds throttle out of a turn. its earlier and at a higher throttle position..... it will also be longer and because the top speeds are less, the throttle will be able to be applied CLOSER , to the approaching turns. (generally)
if you disagree, it would be interesting to understand your logic as to why.
i said below:
I dont think i agree with that, purely because of the higher speed that the higher powered cars will be decelerating from. so we are talking "coasting" meaning, "off throttle" correct?
i would suggest just the opposite, the higher HP cars generally are heavier, but in the end, i think all cars are coasting from turn in to apex and i would further suggest that the lower HP cars can go to throttle earlier, due to the scrubbing speed forces during a turn, allowing the lower HP car to start applying throttle earlier.
if you look at the throttle pedal times vs high hp cars, it is significantly higher time wise and % of lap time, than high HP cars.
i would suggest just the opposite, the higher HP cars generally are heavier, but in the end, i think all cars are coasting from turn in to apex and i would further suggest that the lower HP cars can go to throttle earlier, due to the scrubbing speed forces during a turn, allowing the lower HP car to start applying throttle earlier.
if you look at the throttle pedal times vs high hp cars, it is significantly higher time wise and % of lap time, than high HP cars.
Originally Posted by toddlamb 
Momentum cars require significantly more time off pedals (aka coasting) between turn in and apex than high HP cars, as long as you carry the proper entry speed (lots and lots!).
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Momentum cars require significantly more time off pedals (aka coasting) between turn in and apex than high HP cars, as long as you carry the proper entry speed (lots and lots!).
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12-07-2017, 08:03 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
+1. Thinking through some tracks I know, there are places I'm at WOT that more powerful cars are in the brakes. Is that the issue? Because in the brakes is 0% and the ratios get out of whack because you have different effective track lengths for this type of analysis?
I wouldn't expect the numbers to be a ton different but, ignoring aero cars, I'd expect an inverse relationship between the percentage and HP.
I wouldn't expect the numbers to be a ton different but, ignoring aero cars, I'd expect an inverse relationship between the percentage and HP.
I think comparing % of WOT across cars with different HP is meaningless. Lets say I slap on 365 wide tires onto a 944. Now I can do the whole lap at 100% WOT. So now you would conclude that low HP cars can go 100% WOT. It's all about what tires and suspension the particular car has. It has nothing to do with HP to WOT percentage. The numbers that Matt listed are probably a result that lower HP cars usually have skinnier tires to make them more fun to drive and not be over-tired. Cars with more HP have fatter tires to allow them more grip on corner exit. Therefore they might have more ability to go WOT at a higher percentage through a corner.
You will not go 100% wot in a 944 doesn't matter how big the tires are. Maybe a indoor level kart on a full size track can go 100% non brake throttle but a full size car maximizing corner speed will need time off throttle and brake. You simply can't WOT or even apply throttle 100% of every not braking moment of every turn period. It' about weight transfer and handling dynamics.