How to find your (and your cars) limit?
#151
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This is why I find side-by-side video comparison, compared at the SAME GPS-justified position, to be so valuable. It's an easy way to compare what it looks like out the windshield, but also includes heading and coordinates to plot the path. Pretty powerful tool.
It's all angles and geometry... I think the yaw component (rotation) is most important to establish this "downstream" attitude, but that yaw angle isn't just a turn-in aid, it can (and should) be sustained through much of the trajectory...
It's all angles and geometry... I think the yaw component (rotation) is most important to establish this "downstream" attitude, but that yaw angle isn't just a turn-in aid, it can (and should) be sustained through much of the trajectory...
I often have students who've had instructors that get them overly focused on one of the 3 colored squares. The student explains that they've been told to aim for the yellow square, for example.
Meanwhile, they're bombing down the hill and running out of road on the left or right side of the track.
I need to tell them that it's not so much about the position of their car under the bridge, as it is about which direction your car is pointing, or oriented, as you pass under.
#153
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My best example of this is at Road Atlanta at the bridge before the downhill leading to turn 12...
I need to tell them that it's not so much about the position of their car under the bridge, as it is about which direction your car is pointing, or oriented, as you pass under.
I need to tell them that it's not so much about the position of their car under the bridge, as it is about which direction your car is pointing, or oriented, as you pass under.
Much more fun when there was no 10A-10B!
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
#154
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In the illustration Adam posted, which shows the higher apex angle for the more powerful car, we can see that the angle is independent of the yaw, since it's tangent to the trajectory. We can also see that, regardless of yaw, the trajectory will go off the track at the exit if the turn-in is way too early. So, again, yaw and trajectory can be separated.
But the correlation between yaw and trajectory is substantial and interesting, because trailbraking with a spiral corner entry will result in the car's attitude changing due to both the curve of the trajectory and the development of yaw (as use of grip is transferred from braking to cornering), hence the often pronounced sense of rotation during corner entry.
In addition, if the car is low-powered, the trajectory past the apex will tend to be circular, which means that the yaw will tend to be carried through the corner, whereas with a high-powered car the yaw will be reduced somewhat through the corner exit as some use of the grip is transferred from cornering to acceleration. But even with high-powered cars, my observation is that the yaw is usually not fully 'taken out' until near the track-out. I find that many drivers (including me) were taught to unwind during corner exit past apex more quickly than they need to, which results in 'wasting' grip and slowing them down overall - I've had to unlearn that.
Last edited by Manifold; 08-28-2017 at 11:58 AM.
#156
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Lot of great discussion and info going on here!!
To the original posters question, I am still insisting you need seat time to not only find your cars limits but to push them and learn how to stay just within the limits.
i.e. basic car control.
To show what I mean with car control, just a short clip/collection from fridays free practise, I was out on old rubber and the track was slippery as hell. Tried to keep the car from sliding but it was very difficult.
This kind of "going over the limit" you learn by just driving the car (don't really need a coach for it IMHO), going fast on the other hand will need more than just car control, it needs understanding complex situations and a good coach will for sure be worth his/her weight in gold for us mere mortals.
To the original posters question, I am still insisting you need seat time to not only find your cars limits but to push them and learn how to stay just within the limits.
i.e. basic car control.
To show what I mean with car control, just a short clip/collection from fridays free practise, I was out on old rubber and the track was slippery as hell. Tried to keep the car from sliding but it was very difficult.
This kind of "going over the limit" you learn by just driving the car (don't really need a coach for it IMHO), going fast on the other hand will need more than just car control, it needs understanding complex situations and a good coach will for sure be worth his/her weight in gold for us mere mortals.
#159
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#161
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Not to be an *** but you are finding your own limit not the cars . Most people feel that they progress in the sport and there car is no longer fast enough because they "found its limit". Impossible to go faster
Then a real pro or a real hot shoe is asked to drive the car and they are fast then the owner. The owner cant understand how that's possible he/she was driving the tires off the car. There are veryyyy few drivers that really find the so called cars limit . Especially the insanely capable cars of today.
I have the records in GTC-3 Cup at Lime Rock and NJMP . I still have not found the cars limit only my own.
Then a real pro or a real hot shoe is asked to drive the car and they are fast then the owner. The owner cant understand how that's possible he/she was driving the tires off the car. There are veryyyy few drivers that really find the so called cars limit . Especially the insanely capable cars of today.
I have the records in GTC-3 Cup at Lime Rock and NJMP . I still have not found the cars limit only my own.
Last edited by Steve113; 11-22-2017 at 12:31 AM.