nuvolari612

Love the Spyker - they did some different paint jobs at the end. Look forward to seeing some reviews on the new model.

NYC123 - that CGT looking back when it was 1M - today was a good price but the seller keeps raising and raising. There are Stradale 575SA 550B and others who do the same thing and as I mentioned before the best is Marshall Goldman who truly believe they are Goldman Sachs when they take a group of cars and add HUGE premiums.

There were guys here who raised their prices on their CGT's 100' and 100's after they advertised it.

Matrix pricing - call it whatever but it works when you have something no one else has in a strong market.

NYC123

A bit confused here... Auctions are considered wholesale prices ? This is just wrong. Possibly if you are quoting what a seller gets in his pocket net after commission that could be close to a fair statement but hammer price would typically be more like private party value. Hammer price +buyers premium= full retail plus some.

Secondly quoting what somebody is "listing" as an asking price is often not relevant at all to a market. You can list something for any crazy number you want as dealers often do. Transaction prices (verified and documented) are the only prices that matter in reality to a market. Now if you are talking about a rare car (which a CGT is not even close to rare in car collecting ) then yes asking prices matter. You know a car that come for sale like once every 10 years and maybe less than 40 made less than 20 left then sure the asking price matters as you will likely never find another, but for a commodity type car asking price is in today's market often quite irrelevant.

To give you an example of how irrelevant "listing prices" are I recently tried to trade a car to a dealer similar to some of these dealers you mention. In the same league. The car I wanted to trade, they currently had by coincidence the identical car I wanted to trade to them in their inventory , same color combo, same year and miles were within 10%
the same. They told me they had not had a single call on their example and thought actual value was about 35% less than they were asking so had little interest in a second example even at 40-50% LESS than they were asking. And without naming the dealer or the car, lets just say it is a very desirable car and something made in limited, (not rare) quantity.


What prices were 8 years ago or will be 8 years for now equally irrelevant to today's market.

rickyn f355

the most recent data point ive come across is 770K for a 5k mile serviced car that was clean but driven, wasn't immaculate. don't know if the car had luggage or number of owners etc.

cars are like houses, outside of a few select bidding wars asking prices are a starting (or nonstarting) point.

NYC123

It is great to keep raising your prices however most of the cars you mention are deader than a doornail currently most all sitting on lots for well over a year or bouncing around dealer to dealer. I know of 4 dealers sitting with superamericas for well over a year with literally not a single interested party. Consumers need to wise up and realize cars just sitting around for a year with asking prices are not all the relevant to market transaction prices. They might as well just be a poster on your wall. Go search for a super america, not exactly hard to find one for sale. If you want one today, only question is how many do you want, and what colors, they will be at your doorstep in a few hours.

There is nothing at all wrong with raising your price on something to get the most for it. However, this only works when supply and demand is working in your favor. i.e. there are many people looking for something or even just a few, and there is little or no supply. When you can find 30 of something for sale spending 15 minutes on the internet you can raise the price as much as you want but unlikely to sell unless you do the opposite which is start lowering your price to undercut everybody else. Once all supply on the market is gone there is a chance prices can rise again. Not exactly complicated, fairly typical for all and any markets.

tmario

Excellent points NYC. I often wonder how many data points dealers need to feel confident enough to stay with their price. I don't know how many RS's changed hands to consumers at 150k over MSRP to justify so many cars being listed at those prices. I know some dealers paid 50-75 (or more????) over to get inventory but I wonder how many people they really thought would pay the astronomical prices for what is not a rare car!

I know of a dealer that all but told me that he manipulated the market by buying up certain types of cars (I do not want to reveal...) because in the end the market is not that big and CAN be manipulated.

Very interesting (and possibly frustrating).

jvmax

Todays results, both were NO SALES:

silver 4200 mile hammered for $575,000, buyers premium 632,500, net seller 522,727

red 2700 mile hammered for $590,000, buyers premium $649,000, net seller 536,364

So it looks like the $650k hammer price silver 1200 mile CGT at amelia did reset the market last month

SBR

Actually, neither of them met the reserve.

rickyn f355

any idea if these cars had majors, clutches, water pump, recall done?
that's worth 50K.

nuvolari612

Yes.

I have two friends there both active buyers sitting in the front row.

625k - no sale on the red cgt.

C.J. Ichiban

I wish I would have waited til now to buy my 2nd CGT because it seems like there is decent color variety available. I bought my 1st in 2009 still under warranty and wish I had the money to buy 5 of them.

I think they are great cars and we are in a bit of a trough right now because of the weak euro, weak canadian dollar, the overall volume of cars produced and the final mysterious factor- there is not a respect for the vehicle in this wave of new money buyer. This car is not as easy to drive and a lot of the showoff new money guys aren't able to use them as easily as they could use a 458 Aperta or 599 GTO or a 918.


My real question is how many owners of CGT have more than one? I feel like that affects prices a lot for this type of car. Porsches are different than ferrari. How many super collectors are there for the cgt vs someone that has every gt3rs?

tims16m

Hmm. I can only guess, but that small market is probably the limited edition Ferrari V12 market. I had a dealer discuss this point, they felt they controlled the supply side of the market with what inventory they controlled. To some extent, probably true. However it seems like there is a general softness in the car market now, as high demand cars are not reaching reserve prices and some dealers are lowering asking prices. There is not much you can do to maintain prices if the whole market is taking a breather.

C.J. Ichiban

It was probably ford gt heritage edition...

NYC123

Very much disagree about " new money buyer lack of respect etc" issue short term for cgt is a huge percent of the cars bought in past two years were bought by speculators with the intention of selling for the higher prices which never arrived.

nuvolari612

There will always be a easier faster more show than the CGT but there will never be another V10 from Porsche and that's just the start of what I believe one of the top three - best ever.

cgt04115

They are the ultimate without hesitation. It will have its day in the sun and I believe this is all very healthy long term.

The world is hitting a soft patch and the Presidential race isn't helping either.

The fact is there will only be a handful of shift it yourself carbon fiber supercars. And each one is nicely different. To me this is the ultimate collection. Wonder if anyone has done it?

F1, F50, Zonda, Koenigsegg, CGT. THATS IT.