Stephen Pitts

CGT04115, I had actually never thought this 04 versus 05 debate would get such legs. Mine is 1124 (so '05) and the default setting was in the middle; don't know about '04s and yes, you can easily change this (see elsewhere on the forum). Lots of rumours about the clutch between the two years (which I think you need to reset anyhow when you buy the car from someone else?). But anyhow, give me until next week and I can have the definitive answer for you from a well respected pair of official Porsche CGT mechanics (there is one for the mechanical systems and one for the electrical systems) to find out if there are truly any factual differences between the two. And, if so, can you easily modify one for the other? My strong suspicion is that the difference here is non-consequential, but will know for sure then.

nuvolari612

A certified CGT mechanic said the 05's the later the better and suggested paying up.

I agree the settings on the 04 vs 05 but believe there is more to it.

Keep in mind many slated 06 cars were shoved into 05 due to the new air bag laws the 06 CGT was not compliant - so it's three years not two.

As factories find flaws and or cars are repaired adjustments are made - not ignored. But I will ask but my guess is with all the lawsuits over the CGT those in the know have been told to hush.

I have read by 04 owners there is no difference - but when a mechanic speaks it's a whole different ballgame.

CGT000

It seems Canepa either sold their silver GT or pulled it off the market. Does anyone know if it was sold in fact?

cgt04115

And yes it is a whole different ballgame when a mechanic speaks about them, and not us laymans. They tell me theres nothing different that would make an 04 less valuable than an 05. I personally talk to a mechanic that has pulled 6 cars apoart for engine out jobs, and worked on over a dozen in total. This with cars from each year and he says nothing is different, just rumors. If that mechanic was at a dealer selling an 05, then maybe thats why you heard to get one....

This tech services both of Ralph Laurens silver GTs BTW. I believe they are both 04's but can double check.

cgt04115

Thanks Stephen. I think the car deserves to be documented as such. If there are differences then they should be spelled out by FACTORY techs who can unequivocally say xyz is different from year to year.

And yes, the clutch "remembers" how you drive and should be reset for new owners........

There is much we know, and a lot that we speculate. We should not do that and get real, hard answers.

cgt04115

I can absolutely see it both ways, Personally I would not value them more. Thats great they have one or two things different, but these are hand built supercars. When they get built there is a dedicated floor, with skilled workers only working on these cars. It is a place of collaboration and ultimately a historic place. I would always choose a car built in period on the original production run. I am a collector, this is how I think.

nuvolari612

Whatever the differences - both are CGT's.

I think it's a matter of personal discretion to pay the premium no different then paying up for a color or low mileage example.

918's were held - they did this so all 918's were created equal and perhaps they learned from the 959 & CGT.

cgt04115

I just see false advertisements about 04vs05 and we owe it to current owners, future owners, and the cars themselves not to pass judgment when nothing is truly known. Hopefully we can get clarity.

Also, I know they reprogrammed the ECU clutch setting from the start. I was told since so many journalists were having trouble with it during their rounds, Porsche changed it before a single car was delivered and this is how the myth of later cars having different ECU's started.

These are important things to discuss when talking about half million dollar toys. A 5-10% difference gets to be a large number.

Yes it is up to the buyer if he feels justified in paying the "premium" for a later car. I for one, at this point in time, with the knowledge I have, think this is terribly misguided. Maybe Im wrong but we should all find out.

Furthermore, it is odd they would stop production over an airbag regulation if they were changing other significant things on the cars during production without fuss. I just don't believe it guys........

nuvolari612

I understand the willingness to know - but factories don't like sharing this kind of information and it's heavily frowned upon at the dealer level. There are dealers that read this forum and will not add information to threads like these same goes for the alternative GMG clutch thread - it always fades with no owners or shops sharing any information.

Regardless - are you saying the US airbag laws that were to be in place for 06 cars did not halt production?

Porsche closed the order forms due to not being able to and or willing to spend the additional monies to test and have the additional airbags fitted.

The only way and it's going to have meaning is someone from the factory or a mechanic posts differently - last thing I and others are going to believe is someone says my mechanic said.

We all know value is perception especially for a collector.

E-Man

Well said..

richk

I owned an 05 for about a year. I will be buying another CGT next year. My preference is another 05 but I wouldnt pass on the right 04. For those who currently own or have owned here is the bottom line.

The car is truly sublime and the sound it makes are spectacular.

cgt04115

Are you saying companies have a willingness to change their halo cars during a short production run and then frown upon speaking of the changes?

The airbag was a large change to the car=money, testing ect which halted production, I understand. In my mind why would Porsche change something substantial if they would have to test/design spend money ect to incorporate it, and then be hush hush about it. My guess is if there are differences they are minimal to nothing at best. Maybe a few workers learned how to screw a screw on better over the year? I dont know, I guess there could be more comfort in that but it seems wildly crazy to pay $25k to feel that way.

No one is asking you or anyone else to believe another guy through some guy you met on the internet.... Thats why I am searching for some true expert opinions. But, when an experienced tech who has first hand know-how with many different cars talks, Im inclined to at least listen. He's not selling any cars...... Just a friendly conversation together about a cool car.

Hopefully Stephen can get some clarity from someone in the motherland who was there.

But at the end of the day they are all CGT's and thats all that really matters. And to be perfectly clear, my car is not, and hopefully baring anything unexpected!!, WILL NOT be for sale for decades as its staying in the family. So I could care less about values. Just seeking knowledge for the future.

nuvolari612

It's been a closed subject for 10 years - each lawsuit has been settled out of court and you think Stephens mechanic is going to risk losing his career?

I raced and had a qualified mechanic - the CGT for all intense purposes is a race car and those who don't prepare it correctly will feel that pain of poor prep street or race these cars have to be maintained at an extremely high standard it was built by a team that did not take maintenance cost as a consideration.

A 10 year old car needs to be gone thru over and over before you take on a straight at 170 mph only to shift into 3rd throwing the car from corner to corner and how many times have we read owners did this on 10 year old tires.

Owners often sold their CGT when the clutch went bad now you see owners spending 25 - 40k as they replace the clutch there are a host of other issues because owners were negligent during their ownership.

So if an 04 has been updated torn apart and put back together maybe there is no difference but stock to stock 05's are better cars.

Factories learn just like anyone else over time especially race teams and this is a race car that has faced death lawsuits from owners who were clearly negligent.

Later production cars Halo or otherwise always have less issues consumer 101.

It's only as of late whether it's the lawsuits the 918 and or prices increasing owners are incurring a large bill before selling or taking ownership in the past CGT's went unserviced by a true CGT tech from owner to owner.

As far as the 25k - I feel the same way about the color or low mileage premium only difference is that $ amount is closer to 4x greater as if the CGT wears out at 20k miles ... reality it's still being broken in. Ferrari learned a long time ago and enacted a policy if their cars are not driven 2500 miles per year and maintained by the book they can deny warranty which goes hand in hand with liability because owners did not drive or maintain their cars properly.

CGT000

Hey. Are you trying to scare everyone off here? Death? Lawsuits?

nuvolari612

If it helps lowers the price - so I can grab one ... yes

On the other hand - it may preserve one's melon to have their CGT maintained.