Mike in CA

LOL. I'm pretty sure that sound you hear is Jay Leno pulling out his checkbook. (I'll bet Seinfeld is already in line...)

home7271

So an interesting question would be, what would be the lap time if the 918 is not a hybrid?

Does the extra weight, due to the hybrid system, enhance or compromise the lap time?

Without the hybrid, it is at 608bhp and say it weighs 600lb less, like a Carrera GT and it's only 2wd. Would this stripped out 918 (918S) be faster than the hybrid 918 (918H) around the Ring?

I think not for the following comparisons with all else being equal.

Power to Weight ratio:
918S at 3000lb/608bhp or 4.9lb/bhp.
918H at 3600lb/887bhp or 4.1lb/bhp.

Drive Train:
918S 2wd
918H 4wd (better traction for any exiting speed less than 50mph)

Center of Gravity:
918S higher
918H lower (low placement of the batteries can make sure of this)

Braking:
918S traditional brakes
918H traditional brakes with power regen. (more efficient than traditional brakes in converting kinetic energy)

PolarMoment of Car:
918S lower
918H higher (don't think the extra weight can help here)

So despite the extra weight, I think Porsche has managed to turn the hybrid system into a performance enhancement rather than penalty. I command them for that.

Just my thoughts.

FlatSix911

Keep in mind that the record setting car was a special lightweight version according to AutoWeek.
I highly doubt that this race version will be available to customers at any price near list ...

the_vetman

It's just the Weissach package, albeit a significantly expensive option.

Mike in CA

An extra $84K on top of the $845K base......still cheaper than the P1 or LaFerrari......

Petevb

It's an interesting question, one that would be very tricky to answer properly without access to a good racing sim and some inside data we'll probably never get.

Personally I suspect a non-hybrid 918 might still be slightly faster. In addition to the issues you mention above, other wildcards that are tricky to estimate are aero and chassis balance.

Aero works better the lighter a car gets. If you keep the aero the same but drop 600 lbs you can easily get to the lighter car pulling nearly 10% more Gs in high speed corners. But with nearly 300 less hp, could they afford to keep the same downforce, or would they need to carry less wing to keep speed up on the straights? It gets tricky...

Chassis balance is another big one. With electronically controlled hybrid 4wd the 918 can be made "neutral" in nearly any situation, so no understeer or oversteer. Someone mentioned how few big steering corrections are made, and it's likely that's because the car is constantly making small corrections in the way it's feeding the power in to keep it balanced. How much is this worth? A similar strategy lets a GTR lap faster than a McLaren MP4-12C, despite being blown away on paper. But the 918 has electronic rear wheel steering, so some of that balance might be done that way instead...

Then there is power. What if Porsche decided to increase the motor weight by 150 lbs in the non-hybrid, but in the process add 250 hp? How would they compare then, 3150 lbs/ 860 hp vs 3600 lbs, 890 hp?

The actual comparison would get very tricky very quickly. It's an interesting topic for bench racing, however.

One thing is clear- with hybrids getting better at their current pace they will pass non-hybrids in terms of outright pace very soon if they haven't already.

Petevb

I wouldn't break out the champagne just yet. Plenty of gamesmanship here. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't even the 918's final time...

Mike in CA

I'm sure you're right. But I think it's been proven conclusively that the car isn't a slow, overweight slug regardless......

Stephen Pitts

Hey Mr. Wyatt, and what's wrong with looking like a Carrera GT? Anyhow, I like the look of the car but not as much as the CGT and then there is the sound -- the howl -- of the CGT that is quite different? Still, I hope Porsche are very successful with this car -- I'm just not sure despite its immense technological achievement if there is a "target market" here. I might buy one -- but every time I would go to drive, unless its a practical drive, the CGT would have me dead cold. The CGT is like a beautiful mistress who will not take no for an answer. Cheers, Steve

cgt04115

I feel you, if I walk past her (CGT), it pulls me in..... Theres nothing you can do about it.... hahahahhahahahahahha laughin all the way to redline.

CarMaven

Then you may want to read this guys experience. He is also a devoted Carrera GT owner (and also compares the to cars), who was initially suspicious of the 918, and absolutely loved it after his test drive in Leipzig.

And by the way: Porsche said they were up to over 600 deposits, before they announced the ring time. And since then it picked up substantially. So I wouldn't be surprised if they were near 700 before the end of the week. For what it's worth. Porsche now thinks they'll sell out well before the year is over.

Audience: I think it's everybody. Petrol heads (especially now when the car's clearly/boldly shown it's no slouch). Rich Techy, Engineering types. People who just want the "fastest" especially after all the Ring promotion stuff. And even "sophisticated chaps" with big bank rolls who want to make a statement. Any way, I digress. Here's the Carrera GT owning, and soon to be 918 owning individuals detailed assessment/drive.

http://teamspeed.com/forums/gt/80736...-so-there.html

Stephen Pitts

Hey CarMaven, I did read a while ago and respect wtdoom's write-ups immensely. He is original, sincere and enthusiastic (don't hold that against me, wtdoom). And I am sure there is an attraction to this latest greatest -- I also want it to be very successful. But you note how your stated target market is, well, a bit diverse and sketchy, but hopefully correct. $900,000 is a big statement for a new car, but I do kinda agree with you. And with regard to wtdoom's piece, I hope you have read the little itty bits in it about the CGT as well? For there are many places that wtdoom compares it to the CGT -- and they sound very apt. For example: "For me the 918 is not and never will be a replacement for the Excalibur , the Fire breathing snorting Dragon that is the Carrera GT . It is an ADDITION piece , a regular use , do it all supercar with enough exclusivity , quality and performance to keep most people happy" or "Is it as raw and alive as my blessed Carrera Gt ? NO it is not but bloody hell can it do so many different thing and well at that ." And that was my point, nothing more. I think Porsche may have well sought to take the correct ground with the 918 and established a more forward thinking car (in comparison, its easy to see Ferrari's La Ferrari core audience, btw, the prestige badge battalion who are "generally" more show than go). But that still doesn't change my point. Since I don't drive everyday (take the train from Zug to Zurich), I look to an adventure when I do and the CGT just -- even thought the 918 maybe technically "better" -- has got me by the *****... WELL, its not even close when you listen to that V10 open up at 5,000 rpm in a tunnel as you manually shift towards nirvana...

Stephen Pitts

I just realised that this site is now going to be consumed by CGT versus 918 commentary. Oh noooo!

CarMaven

No, not at all.

However, I do tend to remember this line, more so (from his accounts):

As far as comparisons/target market. Think about it?

I would compare the 918 to the current GT3. And the Carrera GT to the 997 or 996 GT3. One has a more devoted hardcore analog audience. And the other has a bigger audience in general (like the current GT3), with enough of the hardcore holdovers and on road/track bonafides to maitain it's legitimacy.

FlatSix911

CarMaven, good link ... time to join Rennlist