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edited to keep from becoming another thread about the u.s. legal system.

Les Quam

I thought McCormicks article was thought provoking and nicely done.

ked

"Both accident victims were in their 30s and very wealthy."
it is all making sense to me now.

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les,
on John McCormick's article i thought:

"the Porsche slid out of control and hit a barrier"
from what i have heard the above doesnt seem like an accurate statement.
doesnt mention another vehicle entering it's path or an evasive maneuver by the driver.

"the wife of the passenger launched multiple law suits"
again. not a lawyer, but i was under the impression it was one law suit naming multiple defendants?

"But one of the claims made against Porsche is that the Carrera GT is "too difficult a car to handle at
high speeds for the average driver without instruction." In other words, Porsche should not have
sold the car to anyone without ensuring that the buyer was given adequate driver training.
Obviously the same observation could be made about a number of supercars on the market today."
i think the same obversation could be made for more than just the supercars on the market today.
like people have mentioned where would this line of thought leave motorcycle mfgrs. and dealers.

"None of this is exactly news to automakers; Porsche has been offering a driving school for its
buyers for some years. Other manufacturers, including BMW, Audi and Mercedes do the same.
But so far there has been no legal requirement that a buyer must complete special training
before driving off in his or her 200mph exotic."
the above sums up the current situation. the mfgr. followed legal practice.
also went above and beyond by offering driver education.
not free as this would only increase the price of the vehicles and it was not
a legal requirement.
they also have to compete with all the other mfgrs. following the same general practices.

As an enthusiast driver with a keen interest in fast cars, the idea of more legislation in
this area is an anathema. On the other hand when innocent lives are put at risk by the
stupidity or ignorance of people who happen to have a great deal of disposable income,
then there is a good argument for change.
this is sure a easy way to end the article.
point out possible problems and say there is a good argument for change,
but offer nothing in the way of solutions.

you have it all figured out from that?

ked

jeff, it's a start... it is also an end.

Woodster

Like Porsche (or any) Driving School would have prevented this. Bullcrap!

Tragic, terrible result of multiple things going wrong and happening at same
time.

Marty K.

1AS

Did you catch the thread on the GT2/3 board about a few fellow Rennlisters who in retrospect wish their cars had computer assist? I don't want to try to paraphrase or split hairs, but it is apparant that AFTER an unexpected crash, most wish they had had more assistance. One mishap occurred on track, apparantly.
We don't have to rehash "it's always the driver's responsibility" reasoning, as nobody disagres. Even competent guys get caught out from time to time, and I can't see why a defeatable system would be undesirable. That's what I think will (and should) change. AS

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i agree with your logic alex.
but it still makes you wonder what about the motorcycle industry if stability management becomes standard for liability reasons in autos.

i really like that rennteam (rc/christian) as of yesterday has decided that all talk of the suit should be suspended until the final outcome.

roberga

the car goes where the driver tells it to go. It is all of this pissing and moaning along with the POS lawyers that will cause the makers to give up on the USA. Between the EPA,DOT and litagation there cars will become so watered down that one will need to buy a track only car. For cource then someone will take the maker to court because they did not ensure the driver had a valid SCCA ticket.

JasonAndreas

The most recent (i.e. published yesterday) analysis using data from the USA between the years 1995-2003 shows a 30.5% reduction in the odds of a single vehicle crash for passenger cars with ESC and 49.5% for SUVs. The NHTSA will be using statistics from this paper (among others) when they mandate ESC, if anyone is interested in the numbers.

1AS

Roberga,
I agree with everything you say, except for perspective. Every system is defeatable in some way, but may require removal of a fuse. I'm a guy who loves to slide a car, but for fast street driving in my tt, I leave the ASC on. You never know when there is going to be an unexpected slick spot, gravel, or other "surprise". To save the bodywork, it's a small sacrafice. That's what I think the GT3 guys are saying. Of course, if you are really over the top, no system can save you from physics. That just isn't the usual case.
Of course, as a guy with 4 dedicated track cars, I have simple alternatives for the days I want the purer experience. Of course, when I let the car slide on purpose, I try to make sure there aren't any poles to hit. I've almost always gotten that part right..... AS

roberga

AS: That is fine. I will not buy a track/street car with that has to be defeated to make it acceptable as a DE car. It is my responsibility to keep the car on the road under any circumstance. So as Porsche moves away from the type of platform I am willing to pay $1ooK for I will buy somethind else. I do know that I am in the minority. There are many more people wlooking forward to the GT3 with SPAM(not typo)TC,PSM, training wheels,sun roof, 200 pound amplifier, and 20 inch spinners then there are drivers like me. So be it, there will be a maker to take its place and it will not be the RS. The RS, if coming will be nothing more then a 997 version of the 996 GT3 for an additional what $25 - $35K. Not worth it more me.

ztnedman1

Typical america. Its never your fault. Its never an accident anymore, its always SOMEONE elses fault. If someone could possibly be blamed for something they are going to.

People try to sue fast food for making them fat......... People try to sue porsche for making a race car for the road aka sports car.

You have the option PEOPLE, dont buy fast food or buy in mediocrity. DONT buy the porsche if you cant handle it OR TAKE A DRIVING SCHOOL. I dont get whats so freking hard to understand.

1AS

I think it was Brits who thought asist would be of value, after it became apparant that events transpired that exceeded their expectations. AS

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kind of a silly stand to take if it's defeatable being that there is no other
cars similar to the gt3's to choose from!
i like light weight as well but defeatable stablility management is obviously
the way things are moving for all mfgrs., not just porsche!