1AS

The heirs of the dead passenger are angry, mouth platitudes like"we have to make sure this doesn't happen again", and have ready access to some deep pockets thru the courts.
In view of what Ralph Nader did to the Corvair, I'd say there is a lot of exposure for all the defendants. It wouldn't be surprising to hear an assertion that this car should have come with a warning.
I agree with Bob (as usual). When you step into a car on the track, you know you are exposing yourself to some risk, so it's somewhat disingenuous to begin to protest whaen the potential danger becomes reality.
But, in this world, I think that the first hope is that Ben had an umbrella that will shield his family.

Lastly, I was in LA last week spending time with "a friend who has a friend who" said that some at the track are sticking some of this on Ben. I suspect there will be witnesses who will label the driving as too aggressive. You can be sure that if I heard it, so will plaintiff's counsel. I wasn't there, I don't know anything as a fact, and this is third-hand so criticize it at will.
Jeff, I'm starting to wonder about what you keep in the computer files. Which one is this? While sitting at dinner the night of grammy's, Scarlett Johannsen sat down at the next table. That kind of looks like her, but she wasn't wearing make-up Wednesday night. AS

mooty

i am sorry, but this is just nuts and only happens in this country.
when i moved to usa, i was told that if you trip in my house, you can turn around and sue me for this and that. in asia, if you tripped in my house, you have proven, one, you are an idiot for not having figured out how to walk. two, you have dishonored me, your host, for tripping at my residence. three, you would most likely apologize profusedly and return with a substantial gift the next day for staining the carpet at my house..... blah blah...

just b/c there's $ involved ppl sue each other for FUN????

PogueMoHone

I am amazed sometimes about the stupidity of people.


There's an old saying in life that goes " the difficult is easy but the obvious takes a while longer"

I'll bet that The Keaton Attorney has not read Ben's (RIP) post on the various websites, but in a court of law it would be very easy to prove that he knew what he was getting into with CGT.

Further he knew what he was getting into on the track, and all this supposition about another car is exactly that, all of who go around a track know that we bear primary responsibility.

It is sad for his family, but that is a risk that he exposed them to, and his wife accepted, based upon his repeated attendances and posts.

I'm sure that all his correspondence, on the various websites, with regard to driving style, capability, etc. will come under scrutiny and be used to show that he was a knowledable and willing buyer: and that he loved the thrill of pderformance.

I can understand the intent of his attorney to use the 'kitchen sink" approach, but PAG and PCNA don't have much to be concerned about, they're used to the "deep pocket" chasers. All of us who buy Porsche's pay for this consideration (more's the pity).

If i lived in Las Vegas, I'd bet that Porsche comes out clean, and I hope they go through all the website posts to make their case, if I was their Attorney I would (but I'm not a Lawyer, so what do I know).

LVDell

It's lawsuits like this that make me embarrased to be American. Laughing stock of the world. People just looking to cash in on loved ones deaths.

My brother was killed by an elderly lady (auto accident) and was negligent in more ways than one. Family had money, happnened at an entrance to a deep pocket corporation, etc, etc, etc, and many of the lawyer friends I had kept telling me about all the $$$ I (and my Mother) could make on this by filing suit.

What did I do? Nothing but accepted the check for my brothers totalled Motorcycle. A billion dollars would never bring him back and the money would create a guilt in me I could never have lived with. The insurance compant did call me at a later date and offered the "limits" on the auto policy--something like $25K--which I told them to send to my mother so she could pay for funeral expenses, etc.

wch

I will contribute $500 to the defense of this lawsuit. I'm not yet angry enough to take on the administrative task of establishing such a fund, however.

A terrible loss does not change this truth: if you cannot accept the consequences, all of them, you simply should not leave the paddock.

I may start a new thread to see who's with me on this.

Woodster

This sickens me,
this time a few "badly timed mistakes" took the lives of (2) great people.
track driving is dangerous and I expect that a certain amount of injury
or death can happen to me at the track. period.
Litigious Society we have created feeds this type of thinking in this lawsuit.
It is very sad. IT WAS NOT PORSCHES FAULT!!
Marty K.

Dale Gribble

EXACTLY! When has racing ever been 100% safe? NEVER! Hell driving down the free isn't even safe these days. I don't know how you can turn around and sue people when a waiver of liability has been signed by consenting adults who are willingly taking part in such an activity which everyone knows is dangerous.

I wonder what Ben and His Buddy are thinking about all this as they look down from whever they are...

yetis

I wonder what Porsche will do in response, water down their cars. They cannot de-emphasize the US market, as it is their bread and butter. Didn't Porsche make the 993 turbo AWD because they got sued by so many people over the rear wheel drive variants.

It would seem that the lawyer is hitting everyone they possibly can with the lawsuit. I am sure that in the end, a couple settlements from the list will make it all worth while.

Seth Thomas

Not only do they have to sign a couple of consent and waivers but they are made to wear helmets. That alone would signify to a human being of average intelligence there is danger involved.

Bob Rouleau

DeAd-Eye - I suspect the waivers that Ben and his passenger signed protect the organizers and the track only. I don't know if those waivers stand up in the USA. They have been tested in Canada (here in fact) and the waiver stood up. Widow sued the track for the death of her husband on a lapping day. The court rendered a rapid judgement in favor of the track based on the waiver the driver signed.

This is something you want to keep in mind whenever you take a passenger out in your car while at the track ....!

PCA waivers protect the organizer (PCA and the local club) and the drivers, i.e. if you have an accident on track don't try and collect from the other guy even if he is responsible. At PCA events it is customary to sign two waivers, one for the track and one for PCA.

I don't know what waivers Ben and his passenger signed, but I'd be surprised if Ben was protected.

I think this whole thing is sad, as if Ben's widow needs to see all of this play out again...

Rgds,

Mighty Shilling

I'm sorry, but isn't THIS the EXACT reason people sign waivers before going onto the race track?

Bob Rouleau

pphile 924 - Here is an extract of a PCA waiver:
---------------------------------
I, the undersigned, hereby declare that I intend to participate in this advanced automobile driving event. In this regard, I understand that
the involvement of the Porsche Club of America is limited to giving me access to the track and related installations and, if so required by me, to provide the services of an instructor, for the purpose of advanced automobile driving (hereinafter the “Activities”) in which I wish to participate. I declare that I hold a valid driving permit and that I am in good physical condition.

I understand that the Activities entail inherent risks of injury and death, for which I accept full responsibility, to the complete
exoneration of the Porsche Club of America and its shareholders, directors, officers, instructors, paid employees and volunteers.

I agree that the Porsche Club of America and its shareholders, directors, officers, instructors, paid employees and volunteers shall not be liable for any property damage or physical injury that I might sustain while participating in the Activities.

I acknowledge that I am solely responsible, and this, to the complete exoneration of the Porsche Club of America and its shareholders, directors, officers, instructors, paid employees and volunteers, for the following:
- any damage or loss whatsoever due to my participation in the Activities;
- the safety of my property and person and that of third parties participating in the Activities.

I undertake to follow all of the instructions which may be given to me by the Porsche Club of America and its shareholders, directors,
officers, instructors, paid employees and volunteers.

I acknowledge that the information supplied by the instructors is sufficient to safely carry on the Activities.

I undertake, under all circumstances, but particularly while driving on the track, with or without an instructor, to drive within the limits
of my ability.

I acknowledge that the Porsche Club of America does not carry any insurance policy for damages of any nature whatsoever and arising
out of any participation to the Activities.

In view of the risks inherent in carrying on the Activities and my sole responsibility with respect to the risks and their consequences, I
acknowledge that I am responsible for verifying my policies of insurance with regards to participating in the Activities.

In addition, I am presently sober and am not under the influence of alcoholic beverages, drugs or medication, and I undertake not to
consume any of same while I have access for the purpose of the Activities to the track surface, pit areas, fields, approach areas, waiting areas, cool-down areas, technical inspection areas, and any of the passageways, concessions or other areas where the Activities take place.

I also authorize the Porsche Club of America to use any photographs, videos and/or films which it might shoot during the Activities and in which I might appear.

This agreement shall bind my heirs and successors and shall enure on behalf of the heirs, successors and assigns of the Porsche Club of
America and its shareholders, directors, officers, instructors, paid employees and volunteers.

This waiver of liability is absolute and shall not be derogated from except in writing. By signing this waiver I acknowledge that the
Porsche Club of America and its representatives have not made any representations, promises or warranties to me, whether express or
implied, which could result in modifying, in any manner whatsoever, the terms and conditions of this waiver of liability.

This waiver of liability shall be governed by the laws in force in this State/Province. If it is determined that any of the provisions of this
waiver are unenforceable, all of the other provisions shall remain in full force.
I acknowledge that I have been allowed sufficient time to read the conditions and understand the scope of this waiver of liability before
signing it.
-------------------------------
The other wiaver protectingn the Track and its employees etc. is virtually identical.

Hope this helps you tune in to the possibilities here. It does make the point that the activity carries risk and that the person signing acknowledges same.

Best,

Ron_H

May I offer my humble opinion? Before anyone blames lawyers and courts, I ask that they consider the fact that it all comes down to what the jury thinks. That means us. We, or people like us, are the jury, and the jury will decide the merits of this case, if it ever gets to a jury. Of course those on these forums would probably not be the actual jurors because they would be challenged before being seated as jurors. But ultimately this is about convincing a jury that someone, or something made by someone, is responsible for this event. I can even understand why everyone and their brother has been named, and always is named, at the outset. But the jury will decide, and that is the fact that makes it all happen. If you trust that a jury will think this is as absurd as we think it is, then it is all a moot point, because it will never fly. Otherwise the fear is that a jury will actually side with the plaintiffs and find fault.

Mighty Shilling

Thanks Bob. It just makes no sense going after the car manufacturer, or the persons involved in the incident when a waiver like the one above is signed.

I hope the judge throws this sh*t out of the court.

Bob Rouleau

Ron H - yes I fear for an unfair outcome. I do not understand how certain open and shut cases are won by plaintiffs. Remember Stella? She buys hot coffee from McDonalds, places the cup between her (fat) thighs and dirves off. Predictably the coffee spills and burns her. She sued and after all the appeals was awarded $650K. Note the original judgement was for many times that amount, it was reduced after appeals. Her case was based on the fact that the coffee was too hot! She is the reason McDonalds coffe cups have a warning 'Caution contains hot liquid".

Having said that, I hope you can understand why I wonder about the outcome of any seemingly simple case.

If you want to learn more about silly law suits, visit the web site of the American Tort Reform Association http://www.atra.org/

Rgds,