RogueM3

GT3..weak. I kid. I would actually be very interested in any advice you might have for me...I am trying to soak up as much info as possible. (including listening to the law students in the weight room talking about work and interviews, etc. ) Please let me know what kind of law you practice, and any tips you can send my way would be more than appreciated..

Ljugete,
Generalizing all lawyers as "maggots" is a bit harsh..no? The lawyers who take up cases like the McDonalds "Hot Coffee" suit are maggots, that doesnt mean that all are.

Meachmobile

I'm a college sophomore currently attending UW-Madison and just decided Chemical Engineering was not my thing. I've been tossing around a few majors and wondered if anyone had any advice/insight into them. I am currently thinking about Mechanical Engineering or maybe getting my Bachelor Degree in business focusing on becoming an actuary. Any thoughts on these?

Bauer

Hey guys,
This thread has really been great from the start. About 1 1/2 years ago, I posted in the OT forum looking for some college/ career help. At the time I was starting a CC (Jr college) and was not all too happy about it. But I will graduate in the spring and I worked extremely hard keeping my goals in mind and keeping focused (As you guys told me to do). I am in Phi Theta Kappa and have a 3.6 average and will have a Business AAS degree in the spring. I am thankful because it is a very good CC w/ great teachers, and I got some time to think about things. Hell, I even saved a lot of money in the long run since my transfer school will only be for 2-3 yrs.

I have some follow up questions about where to transfer to. I would preferably like to stay local (NYC metro area) and will have to start applying soon. Is NYU too far fetched? How about Fordham U? I am applying to Pace university as a safety and perhaps Mercy as well. I have also been getting mail and even an application from Cornell. I never asked for the stuff, but will definitely apply there. If I get accepted into Cornell, I assume I should go there w/o question, right? They do not have a finance degree which I am looking for, but they do have Economics.

Which stems into another question- I was told by one person that an undergrad Economics degree is perfect as it is challenging and shows a well rounded person. Also that many firms do not care what you major in undergrad. Then I can go ahead and study what I want to do in grad school. Another said that I should just study what I like and want to pursue a career in undergrad and grad and that grades are always the most important. What do you guys think.

Even though I will only graduate from a CC now, I am still proud and feel like I have the fire inside of me to keep pushing myself. I have not worked as hard as I could either, and I know if I transfer into some of those schools I will need to push myself to the limit. Thanks guys. This site, the pictures of the cars, the friendly people, and the success....It all motivates me everyday.

ultimate

OK, lawyer here - tax/corporate for 22 years now. All the serious comments above apply. Best schools, top grades get the best clerkships, judicial clerkships (which are a great help) and jobs. But you have to really love and believe in what you are doing, maybe more so than say a doctor. People understand what doctors do so they rarely seriously bash them. Few people really understand what a good or great lawyer does, which I think is the root of a lot of the bashing - you can truly help people with a very complex world, but you have to be prepared with some "thick skin." Frankly, it has taken a lot of my career so far to really appreciate this.

As far as income goes, you can make a bad, good, or great living practicing law - i think it is up to you. However, I really think that someone that makes a great living practicing law could also do so if they worked at something else they loved.

To accumulate real wealth, you still have to follow the rules described above - invest early, understand compounding, understand diversification, and hopefully have some luck too. Law can give you a decent income - what you do with it is up to you.

my 2 cents! good luck

RogueM3

Thanks very much for the response. I am leaning towards securities..but only because my father is an Securities lawyer in NYC focusing on energy.

Thanks again.

ljugete

Don't get me wrong, there are many good / great lawyers out there that are needed in our country. It's the other 90% that I'm very concerned with!

Did you know that a convicted murderer on death row (e.g., Ted Bundy) can become a lawyer in jail? I don't see any new physicians coming out of prison.

Did you know that you'd better be in that top 10% of your graduating class (Law Review Member) in order to make the good money (unless you drift down to the bottom feeder level (Trial lawyer) then you can become rich at all of our expense and even run for President/Vice President!

Did you know that we have >50% of the world's lawyers in the USA (we only make up about 5% of the globe!).

Don't take the easy way out, What we really need are more physicians, nurses, pharmacists and definitely less lawyers!

My .02 cents.

ultimate

My point illustrated exactly - lots of misunderstanding of what we do, thick skin is necessary.

For example, yes we do have the most lawyers, but when the IRS equivilent in virtually any other country comes knocking you pay up or go to jail - a lot of my work is asserting the many rights we have when, as often is the case, the IRS is just plain wrong. This same thing applies in all other areas. We have the individual right to argue back - lowly citizens of most countries do not.

It is true top grades and top schools are the fast way to a high starting pay check. But I can tell you that if you are good and do not give up your talent will eventually be recognized in virtually any area of the law.

Life is very complicated - it is a great feeling to know and use complicated rules in a way that benefit your client. Not everyone can or wants to be a doctor, and I have plenty of doctors as clients that appreciate that someone can deal with these things for them in a professional manner.

Gator_86_951

There is a TON of misunderstanding about the law profession:

First, with respect to the McDonald's case. The coffee was hot enough to cause the woman's genitals to fuse. Not ALL tort cases are worthless. I am a proponent of tort reform. Just be aware that not all tort lawyers are complete scum.

As far as getting top grades in school. It is more or less required to get a big firm job. There are just too many students in law school. It sucks that grades are that important, but that is how they eliminate people they don't want to talk to. The grades serve as a way of showing them that you are capable of doing the work. That is going to be a big issue when you get out, because you will be doing a lot of work at a big firm to be paid the premium salary. They have high turn-over rates, and they don't want to invest money in you before you become a profit center for them only for you to burn-out.

However, you don't absolutely need top grades in school. That is why I said "more or less." A good way to get a really good job from a law firm is to have an advanced technical degree (M.S.) in computer/electrical or a PhD in biotechnology combined with decent (top 30-40%) grades at a top tier school. Law firms will be all over you. IP is growing and the area isn't going away any time soon.

You don't have to start at a big firm either. You can always work at the state level as a prosecutor and roll that into criminal defense. Or, if you are a tech person, go and work for the USPTO. Then you know the inside. If you have skillz, like ultimate said, you will get recognized.

It is also true that most of the top students do not work in tort. The stigma is what drives people away.

I agree there are WAY too many lawyers in this country. I wouldn't suggest going into law school with the intent of only making money. You should at least some other reason for wanting to be an attorney. The money part can be a motivating factor, but it shouldn't be the DETERMINING factor. Also, not everybody can be in the top 10%.

It is funny that everybody knocks attorneys. But, who is the first person you call when you have screwed up? Then again, this is all from a student perspective. I haven't even decided where I am going to clerk next summer.

mkell

Wow, this thread has really progressed! Many people from different walks of life, yet the same advice. Lately, I have been thinking about investment banking. Are there any on here or of similar fields? Any advice as far as getting into schools and quality of life? Keep it coming guys!!

Matt

himichael

some lawyers, corporate and finance lawyers in particular, can invest in a small, growing company by joining the company as general counsel. i did this after about nine years of practice. i worked hard for the little company for seven years. it got bigger, went public, and i made about two million.

Byron_944

Wow, this whole thread has been very interesting and informative. I already read through all eight pages of it. There is lots of useful and genuine advice here, information that can truly be useful.

I’m new to Rennlist, although I’ve been a member of 968.net for some time now. My friend is in the midst of buying a 968, and being the enthusiast that I am, I’m trying to walk him through the process as best as I can. Rennlist was recommended to me by VentoGT, and I don’t know if I’ve seen a more close-knit automotive community. The comradeship here is simply astounding; it’s great how everyone is sincerely interesting in helping out other like minded enthusiasts.

I think that I, and many other teenagers on the board, all come from the same automotive motivated milieu. We grew up loving cars, and now that it’s almost time for us to work, we would like to get the highest paying job, so that our craving for high end Porsches can be adequately satisfied. I can undeniably say that I am in a similar situation to the topic starter.

I’m 16 at the moment, and I’m current a junior in High School. My passion in life is cars, but for a profession, I’ve always wanted to be a lawyer. I’m in the NYC area, so there are many firms which I have researched, Skadden Arps among them. Firms are always looking for more litigators, and such a profession will land you about 180K dollars, straight out of Law School, should you get accepted to Skadden Arps. But I see how much litigators are worked; I see how they have no life-how they work like dogs from early in the morning, to the wee hours of the night. While the money is very appealing, I don’t intend to run my life that way. So I am aiming to get a job as an Estate Lawyer, where I would make the same amount of money, yet have a 9-5 working hour schedule. It would be boring, but the work itself isn’t as important to me as having a family life. And I know I wouldn’t enjoy litigation if I got back at 1:00 every night.

Perhaps the advice I can give the topic starter is this; you can’t stop working, and money doesn’t come to you easily in life. Like they say, it doesn’t grow on trees, and you have to work to attain it. I don’t have any actual work experience yet, but thus far, that’s the best advice I can offer, however scant it may be.

I’m aiming for an Ivy League college, but I need to get top notch grades on SATs and SAT IIs, in addition to AP exams. I really have a load of work cut out for me, but hopefully, it will pay off, and I’ll get into the college of my choice.

What really motivates me is that I see people in pressing financial situations, and I see how they live from day to day, always hoping that more money will come their way. They have limited money, and thus they have to withhold some of life’s pleasures, or buy their kids one less set of presents a year. And it goes on and on. And I don’t want my life to be like that. The more I work now, the better a life my future family will have. You know, they say money can’t buy happiness, but in certain situations, I truly believe it can. There is nothing wrong with more money, and the more money one has, the less financial pitfalls he will encounter.
In the end all, I realize that life isn’t all about flamboyant dreams instantly coming true; it’s all about hard work, so that when you’re 40, you can honestly reflect on your life, and allow yourself a sense of pride. When that day comes, its time to bend open the wallet, and spring for a Carrera GT. Until then, its all hard work, but one should always keep in mind that if one truly works hard, that work will be rewarded down the line.

CP

968Dave,

As a 16 years old, you are wise beyond your years. Keep your head on your shoulder straight this way, and you can achieve high goals in life.

Congratulations to your family (Parents). They should be proud of you.

CP

Byron_944

Thanks. I hope that when I put in the effort, I'll be able to reap the rewards. But, life is hard, nothing comes easily.

Marv

I would expect the legal field to be one of the toughest fields to make a good living at.

Right now there are more lawyers waiting to graduate then lawyers that are practicing law!

That tells me that there will be more lawyers than work, but then again, look at the rise of frivolous lawsuits lately.

However, if it is a passion, then go for it! Just be aware that you will have lots of competition!

Marv

Byron_944

I know that many lawyers are now switching to other careers, such as investment banking. These guys didnt graduate Harvard to sit in a cubicle 14 hours a day getting yelled at by some snotty boss for not catching one comma. And its a big problem (or so I hear). Firms are losing lots and lots of people. The hours in these lawfirms are crazy. What really is sending people over the edge is the simple fact that there is no security anymore-it used to be that if you put in 8 years of hard work, you became a partner. Now, there is no such gaurantee, so many people are leaving to business careers.