Porsh-uh

Did any of you guys get to see the CGT run in the prototype group in Fri. morning's practice for Rennsport II? NOTHING could stay with it. Not even close. No 908s, no 917s, not even GT1s or 962s... and it was on STREET rubber. Craziness... absolute craziness.

W8MM

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Prose, ... Poems, ... Movies, ... Anything your heart desires.

Cheers,

Sloth

It did look good out there...

I doubt many people are going to purchase a historic prototype and really race it hard in what would be a club race. That CGT was a factory car and was driven by one of the factory drivers, I think it was Sasha Massen.

W8MM

Ahh, ... that explains a lot!

Thanks for your info.

Cheers,

Toby Pennycuff

Yes, I believe that Sasha Massen was driving the Carrera GT at Rennsport. And you are correct, nothing could stay with it. It was great fun watching the car pull away on the banks and leave everything else behind.

And if you were not able to attend Rennsport Reunion II this past April in Daytona, fear not. Speed Channel is broadcasting a two-hour segment on Sunday the 27th at 9:00AM CT. It was really fun to watch Derek Bell do his Alain de Cadenet impression in front of a 956 and 962. What a wonderful event! And I have a great picture of Hurley Haywood "resting" before the start of the parade on Saturday in the Spyder.

Porsh-uh

Well- I am sure most of those guys were not really pushing, but I know there were some 962 guys out there that were close to the limit. Maybe not on it, but close... and the CGT made them look like... a Ferrari 512 looking at the 917K running away. :-)

turbocarrera.

Just a guess but i think with equal drivers, a 962 would eat a carrera gt alive.

Porsh-uh

Tony, I would have agreed with you until I saw this. Keep in mind that the 962s were on racing slicks and the CGT was on Michelin street tires. That's not even close to the same grip. I know the CGT had a better driver, but that, at least, levels the playing field....

turbocarrera.

Scott, you might be right, and I wasn't there. The best time I've seen for a CGT @ the Nordschleife is about 7:30 on street tires with Rohrl at the wheel. The best time for a 962 is 6:11 by Stephan Bellof (actually it's a 956, but close enough for me). The track was slightly modified cause they were building the F1 track at that time but the changes were minor. I think Jacky Ickx has the record of the unmodified Nordschleife @ 6:22 I really don't think putting slicks on the CGT is going to make up 1:08. The 962 is ALOT lighter and can have up to 150bhp more, better ground effect, more aerodynamic, better downforce, etc.

But I was wrong once before, or maybe when I thought I was wrong I was wrong.. so I'm always right! or always wrong.. bah

Porsh-uh

Have you ever driven on racing slicks? Or even autocross slicks? I heartily believe that they can make over a 15% difference in laptimes. More than that. And I think you are over-emphasising the "strengths" of the 962 vs. the CGT.

The 962 is lighter... I am sure it is, but I would be interested to know exactly how much. I would wager it is in the 600 lbs. range. A fair sum, to be sure... but not as much as you would think.

The 962 has better ground effects, more aerodynamic and better downforce. Again- I would outright disagree with being MORE aerodynamic. Remember- the CGT has 20 years of development on the 962.

Moreover, I know that the CGT is MUCH, MUCH stiffer. The suspension is far more advanced, the transmission is lighter and more efficient. The center of gravity is probably the same or very, very close (considering the engine and tranny are mounted so low in the CGT), the PCCB gives the CGT a definitive advantage to the 962 in terms of brake fade resistance and modulation... ESPECIALLY at the Nurburgring.

And I am telling you Tony, the CGT wasn't slightly faster... it totally ran away from everything. Under braking, coming out of the corners, in the high banking. It was the big, bad, black kid dunking on all the short, little, white boys...

turbocarrera.

From what I've read the 962 was tuned to about 630hp for LeMans, for reliability obviously - you could get alot more for shorter races. And in that trim it would do about 250mph on the Mulsanne, the CGT does 205(at redline, maybe it could eek out a couple more with longer gears?). Thats a big aero advantage. The CGT is a roadster with roof panels and the cd is .39.. not a very good number for a modern supercar.. stylish as hell, but not great for outright speed.

The Nordschleife is very off-camber with crests and dips - quite rough, so the 962 doesn't get to use it's ground effect all that much. A smooth track tips the scales in it's favour even more.

The suspension in the CGT has the same basic layout as the 962 with inboard pushrods and the like, and the CGT does have the advantage of much more R&D, but the 962's is tuned for racing at the highest level, the CGT's is tuned for a street/track compromise.

The 962 is about 900kg (1980lbs) - the CGT is almost 1200lbs heavier. That means a 962 will absoloutely punish a CGT under braking and acceleration.

Again, I wasn't there that day but having a factory Porsche driver vs mere mortals would probably account for alot of what you saw. Don't get me wrong, I would probably sell various organs to get my *** into a CGT, I consider it art as much as it is a supercar, but I don't think a CGT can compare to Porsche's fastest all-out racer, in terms of absoloute pace.

adrial

Check out the GT2/GT3/996TT forums... PCCB (or the setup on the aforementioned cars at least) gets the big thumbs down overall.

W8MM

The CGT has 380 mm vs. only 350 mm diameter discs for 996, as well as WAY more efficient and voluminous cooling flow. Not the same animal at all in the CGT case.

993RSCS

We followed the Carrera GT off the track with Sasha Massen driving at the Rennsport Reunion. We asked him to rev the engine which he happily did for us. They pulled the car into a garage and allowed us to sit in it and look closely at the engine compartment. The pedals are arranged very nicely for heel-toe work. The sound of that engine revving up was unbelievable.

I asked Sasha about how well the car would do on the Daytona track and he replied that it would need stiffer suspension and better tires to be truly fast as it is set up as a street car. I asked if Porsche gave him a Carrera GT as a benefit of being a factory driver and he informed me that he can only get a 996 (nonturbo) or a Cayenne.

Paul