Daytona24

Besdies the obvious advantage in 'feel' that the manual will have over the F1-shifting of the Enzo, I can't see the C-GT matching the Enzo on a track. I look forward to seeing the track times on the Nurburgring for both cars - has anyone seen any track times yet for either car?


Thanks,
Greg Manders

FSAEracer03

Hey... I've been wondering this as well... it would be nice for a 3rd party to test the latest uber-cars. I'm praying that Top Gear or 5th Gear would take the Enzo, the C-GT and the new Bugatti (when it runs well and comes out!) with multiple drivers on a road course. List the average lap times and determine who really IS the best sports car (in track ters... how I would judge it) on the current market.

Greg A

Greg M, what do you think is the "obvious advantage in feel" with the CGT's manual? Any perceived advantage is not at all obvious to me.

Given the developmental problems w/the Bugatti, I doubt it will compare favorably to either car if it is ever released.

Clarkson already drove the CGT, but I don't think Top Gear was allowed to do any measured tests.

The CGT's ring time was 7:40 on a cold day w/a slightly damp track. I believe it was a sport auto test.

Greg A

Wahoogie

Seriously, is there a top-gear for the CGT or the enzo yet? I'd love to see that.

Greg A

I don't believe they taped a segment for the CGT. I think Clarkson only wrote an article about it.

I have not found a TG or 5th gear Enzo vid yet either.

There is a vid out there starring Walter Rorhl w/the CGT, Enzo & Gallardo at the ring. There is very little driving footage in it unfortunately. It is also in German, I think, and I do not speak German, so I can't tell you what they say.

Greg A

ryeske944

The latest issue of Excellence quotes Josh Ofstein as saying that "Walter Rohrl says that the new CGT will outrun a Ferrari Enzo at the Nurburgring."

-Issue #127, page 64

red9four4

my money is on the enzo

Daytona24

I don't know which one will have the edge, however the Enzo looks hard to beat. The Bugatti would be an interesting third car in that comparison, I think it would eat the other two on any of the semi-straights on the North Loop.

Greg A, it is my assumption that the Enzo F1 shifter is similar in feel to that of the 360 Modena F1, which I have had the good fortune to drive - and it really does lack in feel. Not that it would affect lap times perhaps, but from a driving enjoyment standpoint it definitely would. Personal preference I suppose though...

Greg Manders

Greg A

Greg,

Your last post is different in nature than your first. I will give you that it is entirely a subjective opinion, but from a bench racing perspective, the F1 trans should not negatively effect lap times in any way.

The Enzo's version is supposed to shift faster and more efficiently than the 360's. I don't know if it truly does.

Bugatti has reduced the estimated top speed of its yet to be produced Veyron from 252 to 218mph. It seems they have not quite figured out the aerodynamics involved in making a car go that fast.

The Veyron that was at Laguna Seca last year for the Monterey Historics spun in turn one and I think spun somewhere else on the track as well. I doubt it would come anywhere near the times of the Enzo or CGT on the ring.

Ferrari do not test at the Ring. Porsche does. I see nothing in the Enzo's design or performance that would make that car faster than the CGT at the ring.

Greg A

ben in lj

"It seems they have not quite figured out the aerodynamics involved in making a car go that fast. "

that and the 2 tons.

Daytona24

Greg A,

My point about the F1 shifting had nothing to do with speed. If you read my post more closely you'll see that I actually favor the Enzo on the 'Ring. But for pure driving experience, you can't tell me the F1 offers more feel than a manual.

In any case, it's a shame Bugatti rushed into making such amazing claims with the Veyron, that would have been a truly amazing machine if they could figure out the handling/aerodynamics. However even despite this, I doubt the C-GT or Enzo could come close to matching its straight-line performance. (0-186mph in 13 seconds!) Of course the 'Ring requires a lot more than straight-line stuff.

Now, as far as "seeing nothing in the Enzo's design that would make it faster at the 'Ring," that is debatable - over 50 more bhp, more slippery aerodynamics (but with less downforce than the C-GT, I grant you that), and faster shifting... It'll be a good match, I just hope that with all the testing Porsche does at that track that they are able to build the superior machine.

I look forward to seeing the results.

Greg

Danno

I can't wait for 3rd party testing and comparisons of the Carrera-GT vs Enzo. I collected just about every article I could find pitting the 959 vs. F40...

Daytona24

Danno, that is also interesting - were the two (959 and F40) ever compared on the 'Ring?

Greg A

You are absolutely correct. I mis-read your original statement. My apologies.

I am not trying to tell you that the F1 trans offers more feel than a manual. I do believe that, for me, the concept does not detract from the driving experience in any way. I appreciate having the ability to keep both hands on the wheel; using left foot braking and not worrying about screwing up downshifts while rev matching. I prefer to be able to concentrate on driving the car, which is what I believe the F1 offers. Having said that, I would choose the CGT's trans over the Enzo's b/c I believe that Ferrari could still improve their system.

You are also right in that the other cars will probably not compare favorably to the Bugatti in a straight line, but when you have to worry about taking flight, I don't think that straight line performance is going to matter.

I believe that the technical advancements applied in the CGT outweigh the Enzo's power advantage. I could be wrong, but I would take its lower Cg and superior downforce over the extra Hp.

I look forward to seeing a comparison between these wonderful cars.

Greg A

Daytona24

Greg A, you have me envisioning a Bugatti passing the Carrera GT right over top, haha - again, I don't understand why they can't get the aero right with the Veyron - hell, if CHRYSLER claims their new supercar will do 248mph without problems, something is obviously lacking there at Bugatti.

I also agree with you, behind the wheel I would prefer the extra downforce as opposed to less drag. Now can you imagine a comparison between Michael Schumacher in the Enzo vs. Rohrl in the Carrera GT!? Now THAT would be an incredible comparison!!!

Greg Manders