CGT ruining me
07-31-2018, 05:34 PM
#46
Ok guys, joining your misery. I've had my Ferrari 16M for quite a while. Really liked the 16M a lot, had a great sound and the Superfast 2 F1 gearbox was a kick in the pants. Reluctantly, selling the 16M but I'm buying the CGT. I've had the CGT on my bucket list for a long time. No more room in the garage so something had to go. Next weekend, Silver /Ascot 1300 mile, bringing it home with a 250 mile drive. Unfortunately here in Texas, it will be 100+ degrees for the drive. Did the PPI everything looks great, oil change, brake flush, new tires. I think I'm set!!!
Heard about the camshaft issues, are there any signs of this problem, other than an incidental finding on the major service?
Heard about the camshaft issues, are there any signs of this problem, other than an incidental finding on the major service?
08-04-2018, 11:45 AM
#47
Platinum Dealership
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Don't really understand the 16M's hold on people. Terrible gearbox. Sounds good but for same money a 458 speciale is way more car and prettier
08-04-2018, 12:50 PM
#48
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
Don't really understand the 16M's hold on people. Terrible gearbox. Sounds good but for same money a 458 speciale is way more car and prettier
I've owned a CS for a few months now and by any measure, that gear box has zero refinement and has to be handled in an exact way, otherwise u need motion sickness pills to stay in the car. But it has a character that a Speciale does not have. I wouldn't mind owning both for different reasons but I also get the appeal of the rude/crude CS. 16m is in the middle on refinement/rawness, limited and has the drop top to hear the that note on the street (not like these things are modern track weapons anymore). I don't think it's overly mispriced. If there weren't so many Speciale, they'd be a LOT higher than they are.
08-04-2018, 04:39 PM
#49
Drifting
Gearbox is awesome - it's got personality
16M Schumacher celebrating F1 is a cool car to own - surprised they aren't twice the price.
08-04-2018, 05:53 PM
#50
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by nuvolari612
Gearbox is awesome - it's got personality
16M Schumacher celebrating F1 is a cool car to own - surprised they aren't twice the price.
To be clear, I mean value based on the driving experience relative to the entry price.
08-04-2018, 09:37 PM
#51
Drifting
I tend to agree with you. I'm a Porsche guy thru and thru but I think CS, Scud, 16m, prob even Speciale/Apertas are way undervalued compared to the GT focused 911s. I know the CS/Scud/16m are way up from their lows but plenty off their highs. As special of Ferrari's as they are, I think they gave a lot of room to go up. I don't want to make this a value thread but they seem like decent value compared to a fairly inflated 911 market. I'm going to take a crack at all of them while in the UK and figure out which ONE i want to add to collection back home.
To be clear, I mean value based on the driving experience relative to the entry price.
To be clear, I mean value based on the driving experience relative to the entry price.
08-05-2018, 07:20 AM
#52
I tend to agree with you. I'm a Porsche guy thru and thru but I think CS, Scud, 16m, prob even Speciale/Apertas are way undervalued compared to the GT focused 911s. I know the CS/Scud/16m are way up from their lows but plenty off their highs. As special of Ferrari's as they are, I think they gave a lot of room to go up. I don't want to make this a value thread but they seem like decent value compared to a fairly inflated 911 market. I'm going to take a crack at all of them while in the UK and figure out which ONE i want to add to collection back home.
To be clear, I mean value based on the driving experience relative to the entry price.
To be clear, I mean value based on the driving experience relative to the entry price.
It's the 'supposedly limited to XXX' 16M/Aperta vs Scud/Speciale is hugely out of line but once one tacks a limited edition plaque on all reason goes out of the window, even if Ferrari do not actually number them but merely have 1/500 or whatever so no one can actually be sure exactly how many there are...
08-05-2018, 07:55 AM
#53
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by isv
Definitely do not agree there (maybe UK prices are a bit out of line with what you see in the US to be fair). the CS and Scud are more expensive cars than a 7.2rs which imo is a considerably superior car to actually drive even if it doesn't have the supercar/Ferrari cachet for posing. A speciale (which is an utterly brilliant car to be fair) is still nearly 2x the price of a 991.1RS. Ok I wouldn't buy a .2 RS here over a speciale for about the same price for sure but that's just because the new RS is considered the newest must have thing and is currently at a silly premium but for £100+k less the .1RS to a Speciale is at least as attractive vs the driving experience to me anyway.
It's the 'supposedly limited to XXX' 16M/Aperta vs Scud/Speciale is hugely out of line but once one tacks a limited edition plaque on all reason goes out of the window, even if Ferrari do not actually number them but merely have 1/500 or whatever so no one can actually be sure exactly how many there are...
It's the 'supposedly limited to XXX' 16M/Aperta vs Scud/Speciale is hugely out of line but once one tacks a limited edition plaque on all reason goes out of the window, even if Ferrari do not actually number them but merely have 1/500 or whatever so no one can actually be sure exactly how many there are...
Look, I'm a Porsche guy, but if a similarly competing Ferrari is roughly flat to its 911 competitor, history shows it's relative value compared to the Porsche. And one of the reasons I'm a Porsche guy is that all Porsches that compete in similar market to given Ferrari outperform the Ferrari.....come on, we all know that's a given! But that doesn't make the Porsche trade OVER the Ferrari and doesn't necessarily mean it crushes it on emotion behind the wheel.
I'm familiar with the US and UK market (more the US). A Scud and CS are competition to a 997 3rs, and they are BARELY over the 997.2 3rs. History will tell you that spread won't stay where it is. However, the true manual vs smg and last merger might be reasons that trend reverses on this era of Porsche vs Ferrari. and to be clear, i own a 997 4.0 and 7.1rs frog (and have owned at least one version of every 997 GT product Porsche made). But if I'm adding anything at these levels, the CS and Scud are better buys given where the marque typically trades relative to Porsche and what the driving experience is like. My opinion isn't fact but I just put my money where my mouth is and the few month ownership experience of a CS tends to reinforce my opinion.
The Speciale isn't quite 2x of a 991rs but I bet it gets there and keeps going. Which is a better car around a track and more highly engineered?....the 991rs for sure. Which pumps more emotion and is the last NA mid engine v8 Ferrari?......that would be the Speciale. It's something kind of like if a 997 4.0 could mate with a 991rs imo given its "last of" status but more 991-like characteristics and numbers in between.
I'm inclined to say the CS is the best value of all of them. My God, that exhaust note! Not bad looking either. But I reserve judgement til I've owned them all long enough.
Anyway, they are all great cars and we are probably splitting hairs. Given the OT, maybe we can all agree the CGT spanks them all for overall experience and relative value.
08-05-2018, 09:26 AM
#54
Drifting
Definitely do not agree there (maybe UK prices are a bit out of line with what you see in the US to be fair). the CS and Scud are more expensive cars than a 7.2rs which imo is a considerably superior car to actually drive even if it doesn't have the supercar/Ferrari cachet for posing. A speciale (which is an utterly brilliant car to be fair) is still nearly 2x the price of a 991.1RS. Ok I wouldn't buy a .2 RS here over a speciale for about the same price for sure but that's just because the new RS is considered the newest must have thing and is currently at a silly premium but for £100+k less the .1RS to a Speciale is at least as attractive vs the driving experience to me anyway.
It's the 'supposedly limited to XXX' 16M/Aperta vs Scud/Speciale is hugely out of line but once one tacks a limited edition plaque on all reason goes out of the window, even if Ferrari do not actually number them but merely have 1/500 or whatever so no one can actually be sure exactly how many there are...
It's the 'supposedly limited to XXX' 16M/Aperta vs Scud/Speciale is hugely out of line but once one tacks a limited edition plaque on all reason goes out of the window, even if Ferrari do not actually number them but merely have 1/500 or whatever so no one can actually be sure exactly how many there are...
Ferrari may make a few more of their limited production but in 09 during 16M production the plant shuttered and dealers / customers were cancelling orders I think the 16M production is legit 170 hit the US has been tracked.
Limited production rises and falls with Porsche - 911R a perfect example of modern craziness additionally .2 stuff - all reasons the CGT numbered V10 roadster manual is ridiculously under valued it's every bit of F50 or more but for production. Ferrari pulls up the market always has always will with the benchmark sales to production process.
08-05-2018, 12:53 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm glad/fortunate I got a chance to buy in later into something like a CGT that drives like a +1m car (in today's market) but was produced in enough numbers that has kept it from going there.
08-05-2018, 01:49 PM
#56
I'm familiar with the US and UK market (more the US). A Scud and CS are competition to a 997 3rs, and they are BARELY over the 997.2 3rs. History will tell you that spread won't stay where it is. However, the true manual vs smg and last merger might be reasons that trend reverses on this era of Porsche vs Ferrari. and to be clear, i own a 997 4.0 and 7.1rs frog (and have owned at least one version of every 997 GT product Porsche made). But if I'm adding anything at these levels, the CS and Scud are better buys given where the marque typically trades relative to Porsche and what the driving experience is like. My opinion isn't fact but I just put my money where my mouth is and the few month ownership experience of a CS tends to reinforce my opinion.
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fancy a friendly wager of a drink on the above then? Imo the 6rs will remain at minimum where it is compared to the CS and the 7.2rs the same vs the Scud. Say over a 2-3 year horizon.
08-05-2018, 01:55 PM
#57
Drifting
Aston Mercedes are now making 2 - 3M F1 coupes bout as usable as a go kart can only imagine the eye watering maintenance to a Centurion card.
08-05-2018, 01:56 PM
#58
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by isv
Good thing is, I believe you are now based around London? So am I so it's easy to settle this fancy a friendly wager of a drink on the above then? Imo the 6rs will remain at minimum where it is compared to the CS and the 7.2rs the same vs the Scud. Say over a 2-3 year horizon.
fancy a friendly wager of a drink on the above then? Imo the 6rs will remain at minimum where it is compared to the CS and the 7.2rs the same vs the Scud. Say over a 2-3 year horizon.
08-05-2018, 02:11 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by isv
Good thing is, I believe you are now based around London? So am I so it's easy to settle this fancy a friendly wager of a drink on the above then? Imo the 6rs will remain at minimum where it is compared to the CS and the 7.2rs the same vs the Scud. Say over a 2-3 year horizon.
fancy a friendly wager of a drink on the above then? Imo the 6rs will remain at minimum where it is compared to the CS and the 7.2rs the same vs the Scud. Say over a 2-3 year horizon.
08-05-2018, 03:27 PM
#60
All bets off on 6rs. That thing is a rare rare beast and could overtake a lot of things imo. But i also think the CS could overtake its younger siblings in the fcar lineup. But doesn't have the upside of the first GT3RS ever made. I'm tempted to pick one of those up over in Europe to drag back with me potentially. But I think my 7.1rs frog would need to go if I do and I have an irrational attachment to it. My first ever 911 was an 07gt3. The feel/sound/small of a 7.1gt3.......even the way it turns over floods back in nostalgia of my first hook into this obsession.
...will drop a pm later too.