GTC spec tire change?
08-14-2013, 10:46 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
"Tires should be free, let skill make up the difference."
This cant happen at the front of a spec series pack if you have attracted really good drivers to a series. ( and I believe PCA has talented fast drivers at the front of GTC-3)
That’s the perfect reason to have a spec tire if you really want drivers ability to shine over a drivers wallet. When it comes to our sizes there is nothing as good as Michelins. They are arguably 1- 2 seconds a lap faster on shorter tracks and a lot more on longer. So if you have the tires free and you want to compete for the podium then you will again be forced to run Michelins. Impossible to make up the difference just based on drives skill alone. Not at the front of the pack. Maybe in the middle or back of the field that would work.
My whole point on a spec tire is to truly have a spec series with the same cars you need a spec tire . The tire along with the car creates a level playing field. The speed of the tire means nothing. It’s all about a level playing field. So why not use the tire that last the longest ,has the best support and is priced most competitively. It never has to be the fastest tire.
The most competitive series I ever raced in was actually on street tires. We had the race field 30+ open wheel cars all finishing within a couple seconds of one another at the end of a race. Now that was close racing
This cant happen at the front of a spec series pack if you have attracted really good drivers to a series. ( and I believe PCA has talented fast drivers at the front of GTC-3)
That’s the perfect reason to have a spec tire if you really want drivers ability to shine over a drivers wallet. When it comes to our sizes there is nothing as good as Michelins. They are arguably 1- 2 seconds a lap faster on shorter tracks and a lot more on longer. So if you have the tires free and you want to compete for the podium then you will again be forced to run Michelins. Impossible to make up the difference just based on drives skill alone. Not at the front of the pack. Maybe in the middle or back of the field that would work.
My whole point on a spec tire is to truly have a spec series with the same cars you need a spec tire . The tire along with the car creates a level playing field. The speed of the tire means nothing. It’s all about a level playing field. So why not use the tire that last the longest ,has the best support and is priced most competitively. It never has to be the fastest tire.
The most competitive series I ever raced in was actually on street tires. We had the race field 30+ open wheel cars all finishing within a couple seconds of one another at the end of a race. Now that was close racing
08-14-2013, 01:13 PM
#32
The tire along with the car creates a level playing field. The speed of the tire means nothing. It’s all about a level playing field. So why not use the tire that last the longest ,has the best support and is priced most competitively. It never has to be the fastest tire.
The most competitive series I ever raced in was actually on street tires. We had the race field 30+ open wheel cars all finishing within a couple seconds of one another at the end of a race. Now that was close racing
The most competitive series I ever raced in was actually on street tires. We had the race field 30+ open wheel cars all finishing within a couple seconds of one another at the end of a race. Now that was close racing
08-15-2013, 12:42 AM
#33
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Some more info about the Toyo's.
The Toyo slick sizes are for the 996 and early 997's.
The guys who are willing to test with the Toyo's, set the car up properly through said testing, which would include adjusting the rebound and compression on the shocks, as well as set tire pressures with a tire pyrometer etc., could be as fast on the Toyo's as with every other tire option, with the exception of Michelin's. Not too mention excellent tire longevity. Those who just want to bolt up the Toyo's with their existing set up will have a great practice tire that lasts a long time, but a tick or two off their lap times.
Phil
The Toyo slick sizes are for the 996 and early 997's.
The guys who are willing to test with the Toyo's, set the car up properly through said testing, which would include adjusting the rebound and compression on the shocks, as well as set tire pressures with a tire pyrometer etc., could be as fast on the Toyo's as with every other tire option, with the exception of Michelin's. Not too mention excellent tire longevity. Those who just want to bolt up the Toyo's with their existing set up will have a great practice tire that lasts a long time, but a tick or two off their lap times.
Phil
08-15-2013, 03:28 AM
#34
Three Wheelin'
at 2600/tireset, im going to gather most top running cup guys will be into 2 or 3 x 2600 for a 3 sprint/1 enduro race weekend if no more. there's nothing that blows more than having the wallet 7800 less just on tires, for a pca weekend.
im fully for having a spec tire.
i think a year ago before the michelin sponsorship deal, tires were 1900/set? 2600 now? thats ridiculous. just ridiculous.
fuel 1200 for a long weekend.
support;
wear tear;
as ive told a few people, at those kinds of tire prices, the cost of running my cayman at a world challenge weekend is almost identical to a pca weekend. in wc, u have to race wha tyou qualify. so you use scrubs for practices unless you really need to get a sticker setup. and then a sticker set each sprint.
fuel, crew, everyhting else is the same. only difference = entry fee. wc is about 5k race/ pca about 500?
but in wc, you get flagger chicks.
i think when i ran continental challenge in rolex, the tires if i recall, and i could be wrong, were like $1200 /set. i recall commenting how that was incredible that they could get a decent tire to a huge paddock of st and gs cars for that kind of money.
and from what i see, the rolex racing is fast, tight, competitive.
and they now have tires for the GT cars also that people seem to love.
and its a harder endurance tire meant o last a long long time in a continental endurance race. at daytona, we took a 10th in the boxster, we ran the entire race on teh same set...not intentionally...we had a problem with two of the wheels coming off and just sent the car back out to grab a 10th with 2;30 on the same set of tires on that high speed monster.
why not reach out to Continental? they might love sponsorings aibg group and they might be able to provide tires to a whole bunch of classes.
i can use my pirellis on the cup car when i want to go a whopping 1 second faster. but stevie1234456789 has it right, lap times are relative. yeah, you'll have to get past hte fact you mght never thereafter eclipse a track record, but everyone on track with you on a given weekend will have the same rubber and you'll all be saving 3k weekend and getting far more wear.
im fully for having a spec tire.
i think a year ago before the michelin sponsorship deal, tires were 1900/set? 2600 now? thats ridiculous. just ridiculous.
fuel 1200 for a long weekend.
support;
wear tear;
as ive told a few people, at those kinds of tire prices, the cost of running my cayman at a world challenge weekend is almost identical to a pca weekend. in wc, u have to race wha tyou qualify. so you use scrubs for practices unless you really need to get a sticker setup. and then a sticker set each sprint.
fuel, crew, everyhting else is the same. only difference = entry fee. wc is about 5k race/ pca about 500?
but in wc, you get flagger chicks.
i think when i ran continental challenge in rolex, the tires if i recall, and i could be wrong, were like $1200 /set. i recall commenting how that was incredible that they could get a decent tire to a huge paddock of st and gs cars for that kind of money.
and from what i see, the rolex racing is fast, tight, competitive.
and they now have tires for the GT cars also that people seem to love.
and its a harder endurance tire meant o last a long long time in a continental endurance race. at daytona, we took a 10th in the boxster, we ran the entire race on teh same set...not intentionally...we had a problem with two of the wheels coming off and just sent the car back out to grab a 10th with 2;30 on the same set of tires on that high speed monster.
why not reach out to Continental? they might love sponsorings aibg group and they might be able to provide tires to a whole bunch of classes.
i can use my pirellis on the cup car when i want to go a whopping 1 second faster. but stevie1234456789 has it right, lap times are relative. yeah, you'll have to get past hte fact you mght never thereafter eclipse a track record, but everyone on track with you on a given weekend will have the same rubber and you'll all be saving 3k weekend and getting far more wear.
08-15-2013, 10:58 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
08-16-2013, 02:47 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
I'm in the middle of buying an '04 with a few $$$ mods that are easily reversible to bring the car back to stock GTC3 configuration. Whether I do this or not will be based on how this tire situation plays out over the winter.
JF
JF
Last edited by 993PET; 08-16-2013 at 03:24 PM.
08-16-2013, 08:10 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Some more info about the Toyo's.
The Toyo slick sizes are for the 996 and early 997's.
The guys who are willing to test with the Toyo's, set the car up properly through said testing, which would include adjusting the rebound and compression on the shocks, as well as set tire pressures with a tire pyrometer etc., could be as fast on the Toyo's as with every other tire option, with the exception of Michelin's. Not too mention excellent tire longevity. Those who just want to bolt up the Toyo's with their existing set up will have a great practice tire that lasts a long time, but a tick or two off their lap times.
Phil
The Toyo slick sizes are for the 996 and early 997's.
The guys who are willing to test with the Toyo's, set the car up properly through said testing, which would include adjusting the rebound and compression on the shocks, as well as set tire pressures with a tire pyrometer etc., could be as fast on the Toyo's as with every other tire option, with the exception of Michelin's. Not too mention excellent tire longevity. Those who just want to bolt up the Toyo's with their existing set up will have a great practice tire that lasts a long time, but a tick or two off their lap times.
Phil
Last edited by stujelly; 08-16-2013 at 08:58 PM.
08-19-2013, 10:11 AM
#41
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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If the car is set up properly and tested, only the Michelin's would be faster than the Toyo's. It takes work/tuning/testing to make the tire work properly on any given car.
09-03-2013, 03:39 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
if all the tires are from one manufacturer why isnt there a tremendous volume discount? I thought if the top tier tires are very close in performance they would bid for lowest price?