2004 996 cup clutch advice
02-07-2012, 12:01 PM
#16
Timely thread for me.
I am N00b to a Cup too. Just drove the car for the 2nd time at the Sebring 48 which was also my first time there. I was bucking through the paddock and knew I was doing something wrong when people were shaking their heads as I drove by.
Soon realized I could pull 2nd and calm it down.
I must have the small Tilton too because it sounds and feels violent. By trying to be deliberate in my shift I was actually making it worse. I found I needed to shift faster to keep the revs high which was MUCH smoother.
These cars are intimidating but an absolute blast to drive. Thanks for all the good advice here!
I am N00b to a Cup too. Just drove the car for the 2nd time at the Sebring 48 which was also my first time there. I was bucking through the paddock and knew I was doing something wrong when people were shaking their heads as I drove by.
Soon realized I could pull 2nd and calm it down.I must have the small Tilton too because it sounds and feels violent. By trying to be deliberate in my shift I was actually making it worse. I found I needed to shift faster to keep the revs high which was MUCH smoother.
These cars are intimidating but an absolute blast to drive. Thanks for all the good advice here!
02-07-2012, 02:01 PM
#17
Pro
Thread Starter
FWIW, I have twice raced a 2003 GT3RS (ex-LeMans car) with a Tilton clutch and it also seemed to me that the gearbox was taking a beating (thud) every time I up-shifted. The owner/co-driver assured me that was "normal" for a "tiny copper clutch." It sure did grab though!
Thats exatly what I am talking about! Maybe its not fair, but I am comparing my 997.1 GT3 which had no gearbox or clutch issues after 12 DE events (2days per) and I ran it just as hard. Then after owning the Cup for 4 months lost 3rd gear (and $13K). Keep in mind I am coming at this from a non-racer mindset that thinks , ya know this Cup box I think is stronger than the street car yet I never had an issue with the street parts. So the 5.5, to my rather simple way of thinking, seems just too abusive for those extra tenths it may save. If I were a Pro then yes, but that DE trophy has yet to be presented to me and I know I won it
, so making the car live longer is the most important to me right now.
Still waiting for more info from my shop and Cory. Maybe switching to 7.25 is the answer, or maybe stock Cup clutch wich sounds like it has drawbacks.
Thats exatly what I am talking about! Maybe its not fair, but I am comparing my 997.1 GT3 which had no gearbox or clutch issues after 12 DE events (2days per) and I ran it just as hard. Then after owning the Cup for 4 months lost 3rd gear (and $13K). Keep in mind I am coming at this from a non-racer mindset that thinks , ya know this Cup box I think is stronger than the street car yet I never had an issue with the street parts. So the 5.5, to my rather simple way of thinking, seems just too abusive for those extra tenths it may save. If I were a Pro then yes, but that DE trophy has yet to be presented to me and I know I won it
, so making the car live longer is the most important to me right now. Still waiting for more info from my shop and Cory. Maybe switching to 7.25 is the answer, or maybe stock Cup clutch wich sounds like it has drawbacks.
02-07-2012, 02:08 PM
#18
Maybe its just because i have been driving 5.5 clitches for about 8 years, but i have no feeling of undue abuse when upshifting and have no trouble making it smooth even shifting lazy on a cool down lap.
02-13-2012, 10:22 AM
#21
Pro
Thread Starter
biting the bullet and going with the Carbon clutch. in gathering information: called Titlon spoke with them, my shop (Topspeed) has been working with Cory at Autometrics, and did some research. Seems the carbon should be the best of both worlds, ease of use and race oriented.
From Tilton
said the 7.25 metallic is 60% “rougher” than the carbon on drive train and while 7.25 metallic is better than 5.5 its still very aggressive. Engineer said 2,3 months if order placed now
From Cory
the 5.5 is very suitable to the Cup setup but the carbon should have no drawbacks and will be much easier to use.
I found these postings that helped.
From Tilton
Tilton Carbon/Carbon clutches provide the best of many aspects. They are by far the lightest of the three types, superior at withstanding high temperatures (will not warp from heat) and have the smoothest engagement characteristics. Although the initial purchase price is higher, they can cost less per mile to run, especially when you consider that their smooth engagement can help increase the life of the transmission and other driveline components. In addition, carbon/carbon clutch rebuilds are relatively inexpensive. For these reasons, Tilton Carbon/Carbon clutches are becoming more popular in high horsepower street cars, as well as racing, where other clutches fail to live up to the owner's expectations.
From Titan Motorspots
We are now offering the Tilton multi-plate clutch as used on our 9-second 6-speed Supra. This is the ultimate street/strip clutch, period. Reduce rotating mass by 30lbs+ with this hot street/strip set-up. The entire clutch assembly with flywheel weighs in at 9lbs!!! Triple carbon disks provide the work for holding and releasing big horsepower and torque.
This clutch lasted a season and a half in the Pro Street Tire Supra (running low 9s) and then another 50 launches in Nero's hardtop (running mid 11s) and still has not been sent back to Tilton for a rebuild. I can easily say that a single disk of reputable brand would have only held maybe one event before needing replacing (keep in mind slipping the clutch through first gear with over 800 whp). The Tilton loves to be slipped.
This clutch is built to last (estimated you can go 5-6 years on the same clutch with only 1-2 inexpensive rebuilds). Those of you with 650+ know that this is far from possible with any standard clutch and flywheel combination. Another thing to note is that you are able to slip the clutch at high horsepower/ high RPM with no problems what so ever, exactly what you need to get those great 60 foots needed to lower your ET. This clutch revs extremely quickly and is very streetable (and quiet at that).
From Tilton
said the 7.25 metallic is 60% “rougher” than the carbon on drive train and while 7.25 metallic is better than 5.5 its still very aggressive. Engineer said 2,3 months if order placed now
From Cory
the 5.5 is very suitable to the Cup setup but the carbon should have no drawbacks and will be much easier to use.
I found these postings that helped.
From Tilton
Tilton Carbon/Carbon clutches provide the best of many aspects. They are by far the lightest of the three types, superior at withstanding high temperatures (will not warp from heat) and have the smoothest engagement characteristics. Although the initial purchase price is higher, they can cost less per mile to run, especially when you consider that their smooth engagement can help increase the life of the transmission and other driveline components. In addition, carbon/carbon clutch rebuilds are relatively inexpensive. For these reasons, Tilton Carbon/Carbon clutches are becoming more popular in high horsepower street cars, as well as racing, where other clutches fail to live up to the owner's expectations.
From Titan Motorspots
We are now offering the Tilton multi-plate clutch as used on our 9-second 6-speed Supra. This is the ultimate street/strip clutch, period. Reduce rotating mass by 30lbs+ with this hot street/strip set-up. The entire clutch assembly with flywheel weighs in at 9lbs!!! Triple carbon disks provide the work for holding and releasing big horsepower and torque.
This clutch lasted a season and a half in the Pro Street Tire Supra (running low 9s) and then another 50 launches in Nero's hardtop (running mid 11s) and still has not been sent back to Tilton for a rebuild. I can easily say that a single disk of reputable brand would have only held maybe one event before needing replacing (keep in mind slipping the clutch through first gear with over 800 whp). The Tilton loves to be slipped.
This clutch is built to last (estimated you can go 5-6 years on the same clutch with only 1-2 inexpensive rebuilds). Those of you with 650+ know that this is far from possible with any standard clutch and flywheel combination. Another thing to note is that you are able to slip the clutch at high horsepower/ high RPM with no problems what so ever, exactly what you need to get those great 60 foots needed to lower your ET. This clutch revs extremely quickly and is very streetable (and quiet at that).
07-26-2020, 08:36 AM
#28
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Digging up this very old thread.
The last couple of times I’ve driven my 996 cup I’ve had trouble smoothing out the up shifts. The 2-3 shift is particularly difficult in this regard. It feels like a bit of a thud through the driveline on some shifts. I’m going to assume this won’t be good for the gearbox in the long term? Is this sort of behavior to do with wear in the clutch plate which is making timing the shifts more difficult, or is it’s a technique issue? If so, what should I be doing differently? For whatever reason it was not an issue for me when I first got the car.
It is a twin plate clutch with a very low inertia.
In car footage may give a better idea of what I’m trying to describe. Do I have a problem here or is this just how a small diameter twin plate clutch behaves?
The last couple of times I’ve driven my 996 cup I’ve had trouble smoothing out the up shifts. The 2-3 shift is particularly difficult in this regard. It feels like a bit of a thud through the driveline on some shifts. I’m going to assume this won’t be good for the gearbox in the long term? Is this sort of behavior to do with wear in the clutch plate which is making timing the shifts more difficult, or is it’s a technique issue? If so, what should I be doing differently? For whatever reason it was not an issue for me when I first got the car.
It is a twin plate clutch with a very low inertia.
In car footage may give a better idea of what I’m trying to describe. Do I have a problem here or is this just how a small diameter twin plate clutch behaves?
Last edited by spiller; 07-26-2020 at 08:54 AM.
07-26-2020, 09:44 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Sorry to say this but 2-3 troubles was the sign that my gearbox was dying and needed;
I would get it checked/rebuild ASAP as it is in a phase that it cause more damage.
How does fear box oil and filter look like?
I would get it checked/rebuild ASAP as it is in a phase that it cause more damage.
How does fear box oil and filter look like?
07-26-2020, 04:52 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
+1
def check and change gearbox oil.
If there is any grinding then err on the side of caution and have your gearbox looked at. As stated, a simple symptom can become catastrophic (read $$$) fairly quickly in these cars. Until then, shift carefully and keep driving the heck out of it.....that’s what they are made for.
def check and change gearbox oil.
If there is any grinding then err on the side of caution and have your gearbox looked at. As stated, a simple symptom can become catastrophic (read $$$) fairly quickly in these cars. Until then, shift carefully and keep driving the heck out of it.....that’s what they are made for.