Zuluracerx

Can the experts help me with a fair price for a 08 Cup. Car has 50 hours on original motor, 5 hours on box rebuild, never wrecked, represented in pristine condition, lots of spares (12 wheels, fresh slicks, new rains, etc.). Paper work from PMNA since ordered new in 08. Obviously I will have to verify all this, but assuming it checks out perfect, what is a fair price in today's market? TIA

Laguna_Dude

I would say in the $90-$110K range.... keep in mind, that motor will need to be rebuilt very soon and that is about $24k with out any extras... and believe me... PMNA always finds something else that needs replacing.. cats, etc..... so expect that to be more. That is your leverage against seller. What is the asking price?

Zuluracerx

100K and it is beautiful. All I want to do is club race like this past weekend in Fontana. I was in my 73 RSR (clone) with no downforce going into T1 at 150....either I add a tail to a classic look, or take the plunge...I think I want to take the plunge.

Zuluracerx

Laguna, I only plan to race it in the POC and private track days. So, not sure I have to have PMNA do the rebuild when it is necessary? I have heard not abused Cup motors are good for 100 hours or so, but to be at the front of the pack then maybe only 60-70 hours. Is this accurate? Thanks for your help. Here is what I was running this weekend at CA Speedway (PDS class).

Evan Fullerton

You really have fallen down the slippery slope there neighbor. A Cup is a serious commitment as a causal Club race and DE car. New truck, enclosed trailer with air to run the air jacks, dealing with the problem of having a car 2x as fast as most everyone else etc. If cost is no object, I say go for it but I have run the numbers for my self and I can't see being able to run a 997 cup for less than $6-8k a weekend even casually. I know when I was running my 993 it was costing me ~$1500 and hour to run and was a whole lot less car than a 997 Cup. Didn't take me long to realize that a really gnarly race car was more effort than it was worth to use as a DE car. If you think you will really get into racing and can stomach spending $100k+ a year to run the full season and compete for a year end championship it is probably worth it but as a play car I am not sure you want one unless you are going to do arrive and drive with it. Prepping a race car of a DE is so much more work than a street car if you plan on doing it your self.

Laguna_Dude

Hey Zuluracerx. I was there and approached you about how beautiful your car was. That is a sweet RSR. But for racing.... almost too nice haha. You can get if for less than $100K if you push the rebuild issue. As even for club racing.. you need to rebuild... if not... and it blows.. cost is way more than rebuild. Also, when you "buy" a cup, you don't own it really. There is no title. It is owned by PMNA. You simply are using it. And part if that usage and cost is their support. And if they suspect you are not properly maintaining it, etc, they can take it away. Apparently that's true. So only PMNA or an authorized shop can rebuilt the motor.

You need to decide if you want to do your own support or pay for support. I have a 2010 Cup and pay for support. I use GMG. I don't have the time or knowledge to wrench on a car, etc. The driving is the fun part for me, not the trailering, DIY part. If you want/like the DIY approach, I would say look at 996 Cups.... still would require some off-track support, but would cost less overall. And you could trailer it yourself. I would talk with Drew Waterhouse, Doug Baron and other 996 racers and get their thoughts. For 997, I suggest you not DIY. There are plenty of shops that offer support and costs vary... from small shops to GMG for full-on pro-style support. Best to walk around the next POC event and ask the cup owners. I do know it's not cheap... but I can't see myself doing it another way...so long as my pocket book allows. Plus the safety is a huge part of it for me.

Laguna_Dude

FYI, if you're going to take it easy and not push too hard, you could conceivably go 1 or 2 more POC seasons before a rebuild... if you start approaching 80+ hrs.... your really are treading on thin ice. PMNA sometimes offers specials for rebuilds... this past winter they offered 1/2 off.

Glen

PMNA recommended freshen interval is 100 hours and thats for a pro car, club cars go WAY WAY further fyi....

Zuluracerx

Glen, that's what I've heard too, and that will be the intended use. DE and private track days. I have the support thing figured out as well. I don't mind using my own trailer and truck for transport. Figure I get a bottle of nitrogen (which I should be doing for my RSR anyway). This Cup has 3 new sets of wheels/slicks. Surely I can get by on a couple of events per set. I have been toying with this idea for awhile. Yes, my RSR is a little "too" nice to destroy. I would feel like a fool if I balled it up. In addition, I would have to add aero to really get 10/10 out of it. I was running 148 into T1 at Fontana and it was stable, but that was in 4th bouncing off the limiter. I was not about to find out how fast the top of 5th would have been with no splitter and wing. At this point it is about safety as well. This is a pretty unique situation regarding this particular Cup. I am good friends with the person that ordered it from PMNA and maintained it throughout the last 3 years (it's life). I considered a 6 Cup, but in the end I need to bang those sequential gears to get my fix. I fully expect to destroy that box a couple of times before I get it just right. What the hell, you only live once and that can be taken away at any time...

Nizer

Sweet looking RSR clone. Get the Cup and put the RSR back on the street.

Zuluracerx

Yes, that is the other consideration the clone is street legal...

GT3 Techno

No that's not true actually...

"Ownership and title to the Race Car shall transfer to Buyer upon confirmed payment in full to Seller..."

The only right PMNA has on the race car is a right of first refusal on a sale done within 12 months of delivery. Also, North American buyers are prohibited from selling back to a Europe buyer. If you want to participate in a racing series supported by PMNA like the GT3 Cup Challenge, then the engine has to be sealed and maintained by them.

Zuluracerx

Thank you for that clarification. PMNA is right around the corner from me anyway, so I would naturally use them to do the refresh/rebuild when necessary.

James-GMG

Zuluracerx/John....right?

A 2008 Cup with 50 original hours for around $100K seems reasonable and a good option for you.
Question is, have you verified the following:
-hours on ECU
-receipts from Copans (if he did it) on gearbox service
-damaged to chassis
-has the Motec Dash been upgraded and does it have Pro Logging?
-are the axles, uprights, etc also at 50 hours?
-Original Shocks, Clutch?

There is a lot to consider when buying a Cup car so let me know if I can help you with any more insight.


James

mobonic

I would listen to Evan advice and talk to a current 997 owner and discuss the cost. Buying a cup car is like buying a yacht.. a lot of people can afford to buy a yacht.. but not a lot of people can afford to maintain and keep a yacht!

I suggest you have a chat with Glen or another 997 Cup guru to know what to expect... but 5-10k per weekend is likely "minimum" budget to have for a 997 cup... and that does not include wear and tear and consumables costs.