what is an appx 996 cup car annual budget?
08-29-2010, 01:27 AM
#31
I have seen some early cars with great drivers consistently beat newer cars so you then have to ask yourself how much is the car and how much is the guy behind the wheel.... That said, I know there's an '05 car for sale on Rennlist that I only beat twice with my '03 with all the updates. I just told myself it was the car.....
FAP
08-29-2010, 01:38 PM
#32
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Just commenting on the fact that not all Cup Cars are equal. Some are earlier but have the updates, some don't have the updates, some have had some major body work done, some have less crash history, some have lower hours on the motor, etc, etc. All of these have to be factored against how much you want to spend. The only real difference between and '03 car with all of the updates and an '05 car that I know of is the configuration of the cage.
I have seen some early cars with great drivers consistently beat newer cars so you then have to ask yourself how much is the car and how much is the guy behind the wheel.... That said, I know there's an '05 car for sale on Rennlist that I only beat twice with my '03 with all the updates. I just told myself it was the car.....
I have seen some early cars with great drivers consistently beat newer cars so you then have to ask yourself how much is the car and how much is the guy behind the wheel.... That said, I know there's an '05 car for sale on Rennlist that I only beat twice with my '03 with all the updates. I just told myself it was the car.....
I too have witnessed that some of the winningest 6-cup drivers are in earlier cups but I'm pretty sure it's the drivers not the cars....
Last edited by jrgordonsenior; 08-29-2010 at 04:54 PM.
08-29-2010, 11:05 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
How necessary is support to run a 6 cup or 7 cup at a PCA race? 7 more more than the 6? If so, why?
I'm always surprised by how many people buy the outrageously expensive support. I wonder if they are really benefiting from it in terms of position or lap times or if they really are just happy not to have to turn a wrench and that their cars are always fueled and clean. Or are you 6/7 Cup racers tweaking alignments and setup after every run and therefore having the team is a benefit?
I'm always surprised by how many people buy the outrageously expensive support. I wonder if they are really benefiting from it in terms of position or lap times or if they really are just happy not to have to turn a wrench and that their cars are always fueled and clean. Or are you 6/7 Cup racers tweaking alignments and setup after every run and therefore having the team is a benefit?
08-30-2010, 02:17 PM
#35
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I'm always surprised by how many people buy the outrageously expensive support. I wonder if they are really benefiting from it in terms of position or lap times or if they really are just happy not to have to turn a wrench and that their cars are always fueled and clean. Or are you 6/7 Cup racers tweaking alignments and setup after every run and therefore having the team is a benefit?
What I have found is that the Cups are VERY setup dependent if you want to run at the front. I'm talking 1/2 second here (not 1-2 seconds) so sure, I could go to the track with a baseline setup and probably never touch it and just run. However, I wouldn't be getting the most out of the car, I wouldn't be fixing the things that I know/feel are wrong when I'm driving it and I wouldn't be in the top 3-4.
Aside from alignment, I will do tire readings/temps after every run. Yes, I prefer to stay in the car in the pit and have someone do that when I come in. I will download the data and look at push/oversteer/etc and make shock adjustments. I will make rake adjustments. Although the camber/toe generally requires less adjustment because we go with a pretty good baseline to the track, I've adjusted overall camber as much as 3 times during practice days. For example, I had it on the rack 3 times at the Glen before the first sprint race and we made BIG changes. This was after we went there with a good baseline from the year before.
Although I know MUCH more today about the bump/rebound/rake/camber/etc adjustments and effects than I did when I first got my 6 cup, I'm still learning. When I'm learning, I'd prefer not to bumble around. I want someone who KNOWS this stuff, can make adjustments and who can teach me along the way.
As I said, although I know a lot more today than I did, I still feel like I chase the car a lot. I'm fast, sure, but I know I'm not getting the most out of the car/me. It's one thing to adjust my driving (which I constantly do....) but it's another thing to adjust the car or adapt the car to my driving. Said another way, if you know you're at the edge of the grip circle at a given part of the track, how do you adjust the car to move the edge further out? More importantly, how do you know whether that's all that the car's got? Some of us are beyond just worrying about changing tires and doing pressures/temps. We're going for lap records, wins (not just podiums) and trying to be the absolute BEST we can be in the car. For that, in the deep fields we have and the resources some people are willing to throw at it to also be the best they can be too, you have to have support.
I could give a $hit about wine and cheese in the paddock, I just want to win!
08-30-2010, 10:36 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
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@ Peter: Hey............ you may give sh&t about wine and cheese but I have never herd you bitch about a grilled chicken sandwich on a toasted bun...........enjoy RA wish I could make it but my girl comes first and she is getting better each day.
Look forward to hearing the normal embelishments.
Best.
Look forward to hearing the normal embelishments.
Best.
08-30-2010, 11:07 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
And that car on the right in your avatar is one of those early cars that's been updated to be really really mean. KMW had it at Sebring in Feb. at the 48 Hours and it was pulling consistent 2:06's when all the other Cup Cars were pretty much 2:10 and above. But then a 4.0l unrestricted engine is a bit different than the Grand Am or ALMS spec engines most people run...
EDIT: I just looked more closely. I am guessing that is the grid from Feb. right?
EDIT: I just looked more closely. I am guessing that is the grid from Feb. right?
09-08-2010, 08:23 AM
#41
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And that car on the right in your avatar is one of those early cars that's been updated to be really really mean. KMW had it at Sebring in Feb. at the 48 Hours and it was pulling consistent 2:06's when all the other Cup Cars were pretty much 2:10 and above. But then a 4.0l unrestricted engine is a bit different than the Grand Am or ALMS spec engines most people run...
EDIT: I just looked more closely. I am guessing that is the grid from Feb. right?
EDIT: I just looked more closely. I am guessing that is the grid from Feb. right?
09-08-2010, 08:25 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
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Yes. Also a few extra tires at the beginning for all the flat spots as you figure out the difference between a race car WITHOUT ABS, vs. one that HAS ABS!
09-08-2010, 11:24 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
I think the brakes (pads, rotors, and ducts) on the 997 might be a little cheaper to run as they last longer. And you won't be breaking the 997 clutch every several races (miss-shifts or stress from downshift overrevs) so you save on that. The tranny is the only thing that costs more on the 997, at least until someone comes up with a replacement tranny, as Guard hopes to next year.
09-08-2010, 11:40 AM
#44
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I find that I have less brake pad life in the 997... The front rotors are replacable in the 996 but we still have to buy Porschye OEM rotors in the 997 so that's a bit more. Clutch was never an issue for me in the 996 so not sure that would be a net savings for me in the 997. Any way you look at it, I think the 997 tranny is more expensive than the 996 on an hourly basis...how much, I'm not really sure yet.
