996/GT3 race car build
04-28-2010, 01:59 AM
#62
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04-28-2010, 02:02 AM
#63
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Ok so why not use HP/Weight as THE rule? We're not pros racing NASA/PCA/whatever, we're guys having fun with our money and our egos. At the end lets go have a steak dinner and make a great time of it.
04-28-2010, 02:06 AM
#64
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yes, there's always a dominating car. and what if you dont like the dominating car's look, sound, blah blah....
04-28-2010, 02:09 AM
#65
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but i am too lazy to chat with pca.
if you beat them into submission, i be very happy.
i think dell gave up already ;-)
04-28-2010, 08:25 AM
#66
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I did give up on PCA. I didn't race the GT3 b/c they wouldn't class it in GTB which is where I thought it should as does several others and I was NOT racing it in GTA. The problem is they want overwhelming support which isn't going to happen since there are not that many GT3's running.
Biggest regret I ever had was sell the GT3 to follow the "pick a class first, then get the car" theory. I did pick a class and then found the car only to learn that even in "stock" class there is some serious rule breaking there and I wasn't going to do it.
Hence, the reason I built the spec boxster. About as close as you can get to a true drivers class. Not much variance at all in hp/tq and it comes down to driver talent and setup. The way it should be.
If GT3 was allowed into GTB, and the classes were large (which they are pathetic anyway) then I'd pick a GT3 over any other car in GTB.
Biggest regret I ever had was sell the GT3 to follow the "pick a class first, then get the car" theory. I did pick a class and then found the car only to learn that even in "stock" class there is some serious rule breaking there and I wasn't going to do it.
Hence, the reason I built the spec boxster. About as close as you can get to a true drivers class. Not much variance at all in hp/tq and it comes down to driver talent and setup. The way it should be.
If GT3 was allowed into GTB, and the classes were large (which they are pathetic anyway) then I'd pick a GT3 over any other car in GTB.
05-31-2010, 03:47 PM
#68
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Just picking this thread up....
1) For all the "let's do it all weight to hp" guys - Take two identical cars and put bigger tires on one...are they the same? Take two identical cars and take 200lbs out of one but add 30hp to another...are they the same? Take two identical weight to hp cars and give one a sequential box....are they the same? Take two identical cars and give each of them different gearing and brakes....are they the same?
The answer to all of these is of course not. That's the problem with weight to hp....and I generally like weight to hp classes. However, don't kid yourself that it's the fairest way to class cars.
2) To the original poster who is converting his GT3 to a race car. As I see it, you could have taken half your cost of the conversion and had a racing budget for a few races. That said, I understand your desire to do it and have what you want. I did it myself which is why I now counsel anyone who is thinking about this to NEVER do it. In the end, I had a GT4 car and, on an hourly basis, it wasn't tremendously cheaper than my 996 Cup. The main problem with building cars is that you are piecing things together that don't have the engineering behind them saying they will work together so you end up constantly chasing the weak link. It's frustrating and costly.... You see the results of this on any given racing weekend with all sorts of mechanical issues in the classes that tend to have these cars. Outside of my own driver error, my Cup has never EVER failed me mechanically.
3) I've been racing for 4 years and have raced with NASA, SCCA, PBOC, Grand-AM, FARA and PCA. They all have their strong and weak points, however, I think this statement is true: IF YOU RACE A PORSCHE, PCA is the best racing venue for you. It generally has the most robust fields and the classes keep things competitive. Is anything perfect...NO. We're not talking about perfect, we're talking about racing. Again, IF YOU RACE A PORSCHE, PCA is the best...IMO.
4) The whole reason I bought my 996 Cup was because it's a spec class. GENERALLY, you don't have to worry about being out-motored, out-suspensioned, etc. The racing fields are deep (26 996 Cups at Sebring, 23 996 Cups at the Glen) and the top 5-6 guys are pretty quick. I know Cups are expensive (although getting cheaper every day...) but the original poster, by the time he's done, won't have any less money into his car than I do mine and mine will hold more re-sale value (I hope).
1) For all the "let's do it all weight to hp" guys - Take two identical cars and put bigger tires on one...are they the same? Take two identical cars and take 200lbs out of one but add 30hp to another...are they the same? Take two identical weight to hp cars and give one a sequential box....are they the same? Take two identical cars and give each of them different gearing and brakes....are they the same?
The answer to all of these is of course not. That's the problem with weight to hp....and I generally like weight to hp classes. However, don't kid yourself that it's the fairest way to class cars.
2) To the original poster who is converting his GT3 to a race car. As I see it, you could have taken half your cost of the conversion and had a racing budget for a few races. That said, I understand your desire to do it and have what you want. I did it myself which is why I now counsel anyone who is thinking about this to NEVER do it. In the end, I had a GT4 car and, on an hourly basis, it wasn't tremendously cheaper than my 996 Cup. The main problem with building cars is that you are piecing things together that don't have the engineering behind them saying they will work together so you end up constantly chasing the weak link. It's frustrating and costly.... You see the results of this on any given racing weekend with all sorts of mechanical issues in the classes that tend to have these cars. Outside of my own driver error, my Cup has never EVER failed me mechanically.
3) I've been racing for 4 years and have raced with NASA, SCCA, PBOC, Grand-AM, FARA and PCA. They all have their strong and weak points, however, I think this statement is true: IF YOU RACE A PORSCHE, PCA is the best racing venue for you. It generally has the most robust fields and the classes keep things competitive. Is anything perfect...NO. We're not talking about perfect, we're talking about racing. Again, IF YOU RACE A PORSCHE, PCA is the best...IMO.
4) The whole reason I bought my 996 Cup was because it's a spec class. GENERALLY, you don't have to worry about being out-motored, out-suspensioned, etc. The racing fields are deep (26 996 Cups at Sebring, 23 996 Cups at the Glen) and the top 5-6 guys are pretty quick. I know Cups are expensive (although getting cheaper every day...) but the original poster, by the time he's done, won't have any less money into his car than I do mine and mine will hold more re-sale value (I hope).
06-05-2010, 03:52 AM
#72
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Another route would have been to find a 996 CUP tub or roller and take a street GT3 wreck or donor to complete the CUP build.
To take a street 996 GT3 and install cage other than bolt-in examples such as Clubsport, Custom cages or Autopower can be expensive and time consuming.
I have seen quite a few of GT3 Street cars get full cage and cup treatments only to hit used market with poor resales.
I have much respect to those who do it however because it is totally custom, costly and passionate.
I decided to avoid this route and stick with either bolt in cage (which i did) or CUP tub/roller project.
To take a street 996 GT3 and install cage other than bolt-in examples such as Clubsport, Custom cages or Autopower can be expensive and time consuming.
I have seen quite a few of GT3 Street cars get full cage and cup treatments only to hit used market with poor resales.
I have much respect to those who do it however because it is totally custom, costly and passionate.
I decided to avoid this route and stick with either bolt in cage (which i did) or CUP tub/roller project.
06-06-2010, 07:57 PM
#73
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Guys,
Please remember, GT3 Speed is building this car to mainly run in POC and World Challenge GTS! It's not all about PCA. POC has some great racing and now they have the power to weight spec classification and this car will fit nicely in GT3, where it won't have to run against factory Cup cars. PCA is missing the boat not classifying the 996 GT3 street car in GTB 1/2 as there are many of these cars out there being built for wheel to wheel competition.
For WC GTS, this car will be a strong player in that class as the factory 996 Cup car would have to compete in GT and that car would NOT be competitive.
This cage is built to factory Cup car specs but with the added benefit of Nascar door bars, which frankly, I wish came in the factory Cup cars. And if you are going wheel to wheel racing and you are running with a bolt-in cage, I question the logic in that decision....
Lastly, I will make this point again.........not everyone can write a check for $75K - $200K for a Cup car as you can't finance them like a street car. Converting a street car makes a lot of sense for most of the people out there.
Please remember, GT3 Speed is building this car to mainly run in POC and World Challenge GTS! It's not all about PCA. POC has some great racing and now they have the power to weight spec classification and this car will fit nicely in GT3, where it won't have to run against factory Cup cars. PCA is missing the boat not classifying the 996 GT3 street car in GTB 1/2 as there are many of these cars out there being built for wheel to wheel competition.
For WC GTS, this car will be a strong player in that class as the factory 996 Cup car would have to compete in GT and that car would NOT be competitive.
This cage is built to factory Cup car specs but with the added benefit of Nascar door bars, which frankly, I wish came in the factory Cup cars. And if you are going wheel to wheel racing and you are running with a bolt-in cage, I question the logic in that decision....
Lastly, I will make this point again.........not everyone can write a check for $75K - $200K for a Cup car as you can't finance them like a street car. Converting a street car makes a lot of sense for most of the people out there.
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06-06-2010, 09:17 PM
#74
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Just picking this thread up....
2) To the original poster who is converting his GT3 to a race car. As I see it, you could have taken half your cost of the conversion and had a racing budget for a few races. That said, I understand your desire to do it and have what you want. I did it myself which is why I now counsel anyone who is thinking about this to NEVER do it.
2) To the original poster who is converting his GT3 to a race car. As I see it, you could have taken half your cost of the conversion and had a racing budget for a few races. That said, I understand your desire to do it and have what you want. I did it myself which is why I now counsel anyone who is thinking about this to NEVER do it.
In the end, I had a GT4 car and, on an hourly basis, it wasn't tremendously cheaper than my 996 Cup. The main problem with building cars is that you are piecing things together that don't have the engineering behind them saying they will work together so you end up constantly chasing the weak link. It's frustrating and costly.... You see the results of this on any given racing weekend with all sorts of mechanical issues in the classes that tend to have these cars. Outside of my own driver error, my Cup has never EVER failed me mechanically.
3) I've been racing for 4 years and have raced with NASA, SCCA, PBOC, Grand-AM, FARA and PCA.
I know Cups are expensive (although getting cheaper every day...) but the original poster, by the time he's done, won't have any less money into his car than I do mine and mine will hold more re-sale value (I hope).
If my car is 1 to 1.5 seconds a lap faster than your car, with the same driver, which car has more value?
06-07-2010, 01:51 PM
#75
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How much is a "lot?" I've built a car from scratch and purchased 2 others and spent the last few years and a lot of money/time racing them. Let me know what the experience threshold is (5 years, 10 years, etc) and I'll keep that in mind when I post in the future.
Don't get me wrong, I've done the same thing you're doing. I hope it works out really well. I would never wish anyone anything other than the best with their project. However, having done what you're doing, I'd never do it again...