Got to get a Giken - The ONLY LSD to have.
01-07-2010, 09:26 AM
#31
Nordschleife Master
My question is why bother? The GT LSD and Porsche LSD work in the same manner and share parts and housings. They are durable, repairable, internally replaceable, configurable, and value priced with years in the business. So, why use something else?
Just looking at the design, it looks like more complicated with more parts to fail. If you properly cool a gearbox, then the LSDs last a long time.
Just looking at the design, it looks like more complicated with more parts to fail. If you properly cool a gearbox, then the LSDs last a long time.
01-07-2010, 02:22 PM
#32
You raise good questions here Geoffrey, and I will try to answer them for you.
This would be the case of more = better. While this is not always the case in motorsports, it does actually apply here. The more clutch plates you have in a differential, the greater the work load split, and the greater amount of HP and Torque the differential can handle. The differential does not shed as much internal material, (METAL) because the plates do not have to have 85 ft-lbs of pre-load, to maintain it's lockup.
As to your question of internal parts failure, in the OS Giken Differential, this is certainly not the case, in fact it is just the opposite. Many of the weaknesses that have shown to cause failure internal to a LSD have been completely reworked to exclude or improve these parts so that there is less possibility of failure, not more.
Two things that we have seen fail over and over in several high end LSD's are the spyder gears, as well as the cross pins that engage the ramps in these diffs. Precision cut spyder gears are key for good even performance and engagement of the ramps. I am sure that if you were to ask around you would be able to find any number of people who would tell you that they have had to replace spyder gears in their differential at least once, as especially in the Porsche Diffs these seem to wear quite quickly. The other area of weakness is in the actual engagement pins of the ramps.
In the Porsche and GT Differential there are two pins that cross over each other to form a X that drop into the center of the ramps and actuate the ramps. (see that attached pic) These pins, (Porsche on the left, and Another well thought of company on this right) are not tight to each other and are consistently rocking back and forth against each other. Over time stress can weaken these internal parts and cause them to break. Depending on the case design, when these do break guess where the pin goes? Right out of the differential, and into the ring gear. Anyone who has experienced this failure will tell you that is VERY bad. It almost certainly destroys the gearbox, and has in some cases taken out the engine, as well.
OS Giken has completely reworked this part, using a completely different, and in my opinion, far better solution for ramp engagement. A single forged steel part that allows the ramps to engage precisely, and evenly.
So why use a new part when the "industry standard" has shown to be durable, repairable, internally replaceable, configurable, and value priced? Simple. The OS Giken offers more durability, is also internally replaceable - although you will not have to do this anywhere near as often, is just as configurable - if not more so, and is also priced lower then the competition. So why wouldn't you make the change to a less expensive, more durable part?
You make one other interesting statement here, that being that if you properly cool your gearbox that your LSD will last a long time. Well, that is not quite the complete picture here. While you are MOST CERTAINLY, correct that proper cooling will allow for better overall durability of the gearbox, this is not the primary reason for LSD failure. The main reason for consistent maintenance, replacement, of LSD internals, is due to the amount of pre-load that is consistently applied to the clutch ramps, as well as the materials used on the friction plates to create lock up. These two factors are what determines the differential's life. The number of clutch plates is another big factor that will help determine the life of a LSD.
If you have say 85 ft-lbs of pre-loaded breakaway torque always applied to the differential clutches, that means that EVERY time you turn the front wheels, you have to overcome this load, and force the internal clutch plates to breakaway, (SLIP) from each other. This slipping is what causes a LSD to generate heat, so yes, keeping your gearbox cool does help. However, friction between the plates does not go away with a cooler gearbox. The more pre-load you have the more consistent friction you have when you turn the front wheels, this is especially evident in tight turns, where the differential really has to slip to allow for the difference in speed between the rear wheels. So here is why more and more companies are moving to a low, or negative Pre-Load Differential.
The OS Giken has it's internal ramps counter sprung against each other. This means that when you are applying low or no torque to the ramps they open themselves back up, automatically, thereby allowing the differential to act more like an open diff. No more fighting the pre-load in a tight turn. No more un-necessary wear on the internals, much better durability of the internal pieces, which means not as much maintenance, and not as much heat generation.
I realize that you have been a long believer in Paul Guard's products, and I can understand why that is. However, technology has caught up here with the design of LSD's and not just Guard Transmissions, but several companies. Everyone has their own preference, and if yours is GT's then I certainly wish you the best of luck with that. I just think that with a product as good as the OS Giken's people should know the differences, and have the opportunity to make the best decision for themselves. Just because something has been the 'Industry Standard' for excellence in the past, does not mean that they necessarily are now. Times change and with it comes advances in all areas of our industry. Like it or not, use it or don't, either way OS Giken is here to stay and I thank them for their contribution to making our cars more safe and more durable.
Thank you so much for your post. I truly do appreciate it.
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
This would be the case of more = better. While this is not always the case in motorsports, it does actually apply here. The more clutch plates you have in a differential, the greater the work load split, and the greater amount of HP and Torque the differential can handle. The differential does not shed as much internal material, (METAL) because the plates do not have to have 85 ft-lbs of pre-load, to maintain it's lockup.
As to your question of internal parts failure, in the OS Giken Differential, this is certainly not the case, in fact it is just the opposite. Many of the weaknesses that have shown to cause failure internal to a LSD have been completely reworked to exclude or improve these parts so that there is less possibility of failure, not more.
Two things that we have seen fail over and over in several high end LSD's are the spyder gears, as well as the cross pins that engage the ramps in these diffs. Precision cut spyder gears are key for good even performance and engagement of the ramps. I am sure that if you were to ask around you would be able to find any number of people who would tell you that they have had to replace spyder gears in their differential at least once, as especially in the Porsche Diffs these seem to wear quite quickly. The other area of weakness is in the actual engagement pins of the ramps.
In the Porsche and GT Differential there are two pins that cross over each other to form a X that drop into the center of the ramps and actuate the ramps. (see that attached pic) These pins, (Porsche on the left, and Another well thought of company on this right) are not tight to each other and are consistently rocking back and forth against each other. Over time stress can weaken these internal parts and cause them to break. Depending on the case design, when these do break guess where the pin goes? Right out of the differential, and into the ring gear. Anyone who has experienced this failure will tell you that is VERY bad. It almost certainly destroys the gearbox, and has in some cases taken out the engine, as well.
OS Giken has completely reworked this part, using a completely different, and in my opinion, far better solution for ramp engagement. A single forged steel part that allows the ramps to engage precisely, and evenly.
So why use a new part when the "industry standard" has shown to be durable, repairable, internally replaceable, configurable, and value priced? Simple. The OS Giken offers more durability, is also internally replaceable - although you will not have to do this anywhere near as often, is just as configurable - if not more so, and is also priced lower then the competition. So why wouldn't you make the change to a less expensive, more durable part?
You make one other interesting statement here, that being that if you properly cool your gearbox that your LSD will last a long time. Well, that is not quite the complete picture here. While you are MOST CERTAINLY, correct that proper cooling will allow for better overall durability of the gearbox, this is not the primary reason for LSD failure. The main reason for consistent maintenance, replacement, of LSD internals, is due to the amount of pre-load that is consistently applied to the clutch ramps, as well as the materials used on the friction plates to create lock up. These two factors are what determines the differential's life. The number of clutch plates is another big factor that will help determine the life of a LSD.
If you have say 85 ft-lbs of pre-loaded breakaway torque always applied to the differential clutches, that means that EVERY time you turn the front wheels, you have to overcome this load, and force the internal clutch plates to breakaway, (SLIP) from each other. This slipping is what causes a LSD to generate heat, so yes, keeping your gearbox cool does help. However, friction between the plates does not go away with a cooler gearbox. The more pre-load you have the more consistent friction you have when you turn the front wheels, this is especially evident in tight turns, where the differential really has to slip to allow for the difference in speed between the rear wheels. So here is why more and more companies are moving to a low, or negative Pre-Load Differential.
The OS Giken has it's internal ramps counter sprung against each other. This means that when you are applying low or no torque to the ramps they open themselves back up, automatically, thereby allowing the differential to act more like an open diff. No more fighting the pre-load in a tight turn. No more un-necessary wear on the internals, much better durability of the internal pieces, which means not as much maintenance, and not as much heat generation.
I realize that you have been a long believer in Paul Guard's products, and I can understand why that is. However, technology has caught up here with the design of LSD's and not just Guard Transmissions, but several companies. Everyone has their own preference, and if yours is GT's then I certainly wish you the best of luck with that. I just think that with a product as good as the OS Giken's people should know the differences, and have the opportunity to make the best decision for themselves. Just because something has been the 'Industry Standard' for excellence in the past, does not mean that they necessarily are now. Times change and with it comes advances in all areas of our industry. Like it or not, use it or don't, either way OS Giken is here to stay and I thank them for their contribution to making our cars more safe and more durable.
Thank you so much for your post. I truly do appreciate it.
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
Last edited by Erik@GBox; 02-15-2010 at 01:20 PM.
01-10-2010, 01:57 PM
#33
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Eric
I've asked you not to use the Guard name in your infomercials, and yet you continue to do so ... both my full name and the name of the company that I founded. This is totally contrary to Rennlist rules for both sponsors and non-sponsors. Why the administrators repeatedly allow this continue is beyond me.
Despite your verbose reasoning as to "why" your product should perform better than a Porsche or GT product, the facts are that THE OS GIKEN HAS BEEN REJECTED BY PORSCHE IN COMPARITIVE LSD TRACK TESTS IN CUP CARS ... NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE ... IN TWO DIFFERENT TESTS DONE A YEAR APART. IN FACT, THE OS GIKEN WAS SINGLED OUT BY PORSCHE'S PRO DRIVERS AS HAVING THE WORST EXIT STEER CHARACTERISTICS OF ALL THE VARIOUS LSDS TESTED.
While it's true that there's a sucker born every minute, I'd be shocked if any Cup Car owner anywhere in the world would even consider replacing a Porsche LSD with a unit that would yield slower lap times ... but if that person exists, I'd like to steer them toward other significant "industry advances" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXW0bx_Ooq4
I've asked you not to use the Guard name in your infomercials, and yet you continue to do so ... both my full name and the name of the company that I founded. This is totally contrary to Rennlist rules for both sponsors and non-sponsors. Why the administrators repeatedly allow this continue is beyond me.
Despite your verbose reasoning as to "why" your product should perform better than a Porsche or GT product, the facts are that THE OS GIKEN HAS BEEN REJECTED BY PORSCHE IN COMPARITIVE LSD TRACK TESTS IN CUP CARS ... NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE ... IN TWO DIFFERENT TESTS DONE A YEAR APART. IN FACT, THE OS GIKEN WAS SINGLED OUT BY PORSCHE'S PRO DRIVERS AS HAVING THE WORST EXIT STEER CHARACTERISTICS OF ALL THE VARIOUS LSDS TESTED.
While it's true that there's a sucker born every minute, I'd be shocked if any Cup Car owner anywhere in the world would even consider replacing a Porsche LSD with a unit that would yield slower lap times ... but if that person exists, I'd like to steer them toward other significant "industry advances" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXW0bx_Ooq4
01-10-2010, 07:54 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
I do not have a factory race car, but I do have a 911-based GT car and I am considering an LSD in the future.
As a marketing professional I know that the internet offers a tremendous marketing and advertising opportunity. I also know that one of the best ways to succeed in getting attention on/sales of a new product is to get customers to say good things abut it and to encourage their friends to buy it. I see a lot of positive comments on the OS Giken site, but not a lot from Porsche owners/drivers. Certainly none from any in my network which includes myriad professionals. Perhaps this will change with time. If it does not, I suspect that the products will not be as successful as desired or perhaps not successful at all in Porsche applications.
I appreciate Paul Guard's post as it is concise and impactful-- especially for folks with factory cars. This lack of endorsement, or outright rejection in a technical evaluation is very powerful.
As a marketing professional I know that the internet offers a tremendous marketing and advertising opportunity. I also know that one of the best ways to succeed in getting attention on/sales of a new product is to get customers to say good things abut it and to encourage their friends to buy it. I see a lot of positive comments on the OS Giken site, but not a lot from Porsche owners/drivers. Certainly none from any in my network which includes myriad professionals. Perhaps this will change with time. If it does not, I suspect that the products will not be as successful as desired or perhaps not successful at all in Porsche applications.
I appreciate Paul Guard's post as it is concise and impactful-- especially for folks with factory cars. This lack of endorsement, or outright rejection in a technical evaluation is very powerful.
01-10-2010, 11:09 PM
#35
THE OS GIKEN HAS BEEN REJECTED BY PORSCHE IN COMPARITIVE LSD TRACK TESTS IN CUP CARS ... NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE ... IN TWO DIFFERENT TESTS DONE A YEAR APART. IN FACT, THE OS GIKEN WAS SINGLED OUT BY PORSCHE'S PRO DRIVERS AS HAVING THE WORST EXIT STEER CHARACTERISTICS OF ALL THE VARIOUS LSDS TESTED.
That is a bold statement... how do we know its true though.... any documentation by either?
That is a bold statement... how do we know its true though.... any documentation by either?
01-11-2010, 06:07 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
THE OS GIKEN HAS BEEN REJECTED BY PORSCHE IN COMPARITIVE LSD TRACK TESTS IN CUP CARS ... NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE ... IN TWO DIFFERENT TESTS DONE A YEAR APART. IN FACT, THE OS GIKEN WAS SINGLED OUT BY PORSCHE'S PRO DRIVERS AS HAVING THE WORST EXIT STEER CHARACTERISTICS OF ALL THE VARIOUS LSDS TESTED.
That is a bold statement... how do we know its true though.... any documentation by either?
That is a bold statement... how do we know its true though.... any documentation by either?
01-11-2010, 10:16 AM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Erik,
I'm just wondering about this cross post and spider gear issue. If this is such a rampant problem why isn't my phone ringing off the hook with calls for warranty support and replacement parts? Why are there pictures of good used cross posts posted in this thread. Erik, don't you have some broken ones to post pictures of? If you are seeing this fail over and over, show me some broken pins.
We are committed to providing the best product we can and stand behind everything we manufacture. If an issue was ever presented to us, we would address it and support our customers, as this company has long been known to do. Fabricating failures in an attempt to push your product not only is a disgusting sales practice but it pushes dangerously close to libel. Consider yourself warned. You are headed down a path that I don't think you want to pursue further.
Matt Monson
Guard Transmission LLC
I'm just wondering about this cross post and spider gear issue. If this is such a rampant problem why isn't my phone ringing off the hook with calls for warranty support and replacement parts? Why are there pictures of good used cross posts posted in this thread. Erik, don't you have some broken ones to post pictures of? If you are seeing this fail over and over, show me some broken pins.
We are committed to providing the best product we can and stand behind everything we manufacture. If an issue was ever presented to us, we would address it and support our customers, as this company has long been known to do. Fabricating failures in an attempt to push your product not only is a disgusting sales practice but it pushes dangerously close to libel. Consider yourself warned. You are headed down a path that I don't think you want to pursue further.
Matt Monson
Guard Transmission LLC
01-11-2010, 05:44 PM
#38
Wow has this gotten out of hand - LOL
So I had a feeling that by answering the rather simply asked question to please compare the OS Giken to the Porsche and Guard Transmission differential, was going to quickly get out of hand. And so it has.
First - I whole heartedly agree with Wanna911. While I am a sponsor here and desire to advertise quality products that I feel will benefit the community, I have to say that even I am getting fairly tired of the continued debate between the offering of Guard Transmission and myself. For this reason, I have tried to broaden my statements so that it could not be misunderstood. I am not saying that GT does not make a good differential, only that there is another company now worth taking a look at as well.
Paul - In reference to your request/ question, Why do I keep using GT and Paul Guard in my comments, because the members here keep asking me to make direct comparisons. As well as ask me direct questions regarding the GT products. Paul if you don't want me to direct my answers directly to you then stop posting to this. If you pose a specific question or statement to me, then of coarse I am going to answer. Now if I don't say things like, In reference to your statement Paul, or something similar, how are you going to know that I am talking specifically to your comments?
As to my efforts sounding like an informercial, well I take a small amount of exception to that, as all I am trying to do is answer the questions and statements made here, in a manner that will be most understood. To be honest I have no real need to over sell these. I have already sold OS Giken completely out of these differentials, and do not expect to see more, other then the ones currently on back orders, until some time in March.
However, in the interest of trying to cool things down here at least a little bit - I publicly apologize to you Paul Guard and Matt Monson, as well as to Guard Transmission. I would further recommend that if you do not wish to continue this back and forth banter that you refrain from replying to it in the future.
Paul I loved that youtube attachment that you posted, I have not laughed so hard in quite some time, thank you for that.
Mahler9th - I might agree with your comment regarding a technical evaluation with direct comparison to the OS Giken, the problem is that I can find one. I have searched all over the net for such a comparison, and as far as I can tell, it never actually took place. Either one of them. Hmmmm sounds a bit off. but hey the net is a big place, I could have missed it somewhere, perhaps Paul would be willing to share the link?
Richard 993 Turbo- I have read this thread over and over and I still do not see any report other then Mr. Guards comments that it actually happened. Did I miss something here?
Matt - Why isn't your phone ringing off the hook with warranty issues? I am not sure that I understand your question. I never said that GT Differentials have shown have had any particular cross pin issues or not. I simply said that your differentials has the same cross pin design, that has shown failure in the past. Certainly you are not going to deny that this has shown itself to be an issue? As to fabricating failures, I would think you to know me better then that Matt. I have no need to fabricate anything, although you may wish to move away from this subject, as it may not end up well for you in the long run.
As to your questions regarding how this differential can be tuned, no problem. I will be happy to discuss the tuning options for everyone in a separate thread. There are no secrets here, it is just a bit more information here then I wanted to try to explain in single post, it is far easier to discuss these areas in person so that I am sure that the consumer understands them.
And the last issue brought up here, the possibility of my statements be "dangerously close to libel." and how I should consider myself "warned".
Really?
Perhaps you should re-read my posts here, as I have not said anything that I have knowingly published as fact, that is not substantiated. In fact I have very often said that, many of my posts are "In my Opinion", and that there could certainly be others who would disagree with me on things. However if you really have the time, desire and money to put this to a court, I guess, go ahead. I don't really see what else to really say about that. Other then REALLY? Seems a bit frivolous to me as I have never once stated that your company does not make a quality product, just that in my opinion, there is now a better option people should at least consider. Not to mention that I personally called you and asked you very specific questions to ensure that I did not mislead anyone. I find it interesting that you now come at me with things like 'Liable'.
At any rate, I have done my level best to try to stay away from bashing anyone's particular product. There are things here that I believe make the OS Giken a better product. That is it. You can choose to agree with me or not, that is your right as a consumer. I would think at very least, however, everyone would agree that idea of a new product being offered for consideration, would be a good thing, not a bad. Especially this one. Perhaps I am mistaken, and if I have offended anyone here, please do accept my very sincere apology to you as well.
Well I am sure that this will continue, whether I want it to or not at this point, please forgive me if I do not simply let it drop, but trying to strong arm me with an empty threat, is simply not sitting too well with me. Integrity is one of the things that I hold to more then most, and trying to bully me away with a threat of litigation, where there is no real case of such, is not going work out well for you Matt. I honestly expected more from you Matt. To not even discuss with me personally first but instead use this forum to vent, well I am sure everyone can see where I am coming from here.
Warmest Regards, to all.
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
First - I whole heartedly agree with Wanna911. While I am a sponsor here and desire to advertise quality products that I feel will benefit the community, I have to say that even I am getting fairly tired of the continued debate between the offering of Guard Transmission and myself. For this reason, I have tried to broaden my statements so that it could not be misunderstood. I am not saying that GT does not make a good differential, only that there is another company now worth taking a look at as well.
Paul - In reference to your request/ question, Why do I keep using GT and Paul Guard in my comments, because the members here keep asking me to make direct comparisons. As well as ask me direct questions regarding the GT products. Paul if you don't want me to direct my answers directly to you then stop posting to this. If you pose a specific question or statement to me, then of coarse I am going to answer. Now if I don't say things like, In reference to your statement Paul, or something similar, how are you going to know that I am talking specifically to your comments?
As to my efforts sounding like an informercial, well I take a small amount of exception to that, as all I am trying to do is answer the questions and statements made here, in a manner that will be most understood. To be honest I have no real need to over sell these. I have already sold OS Giken completely out of these differentials, and do not expect to see more, other then the ones currently on back orders, until some time in March.
However, in the interest of trying to cool things down here at least a little bit - I publicly apologize to you Paul Guard and Matt Monson, as well as to Guard Transmission. I would further recommend that if you do not wish to continue this back and forth banter that you refrain from replying to it in the future.
Paul I loved that youtube attachment that you posted, I have not laughed so hard in quite some time, thank you for that.
Mahler9th - I might agree with your comment regarding a technical evaluation with direct comparison to the OS Giken, the problem is that I can find one. I have searched all over the net for such a comparison, and as far as I can tell, it never actually took place. Either one of them. Hmmmm sounds a bit off. but hey the net is a big place, I could have missed it somewhere, perhaps Paul would be willing to share the link?
Richard 993 Turbo- I have read this thread over and over and I still do not see any report other then Mr. Guards comments that it actually happened. Did I miss something here?
Matt - Why isn't your phone ringing off the hook with warranty issues? I am not sure that I understand your question. I never said that GT Differentials have shown have had any particular cross pin issues or not. I simply said that your differentials has the same cross pin design, that has shown failure in the past. Certainly you are not going to deny that this has shown itself to be an issue? As to fabricating failures, I would think you to know me better then that Matt. I have no need to fabricate anything, although you may wish to move away from this subject, as it may not end up well for you in the long run.
As to your questions regarding how this differential can be tuned, no problem. I will be happy to discuss the tuning options for everyone in a separate thread. There are no secrets here, it is just a bit more information here then I wanted to try to explain in single post, it is far easier to discuss these areas in person so that I am sure that the consumer understands them.
And the last issue brought up here, the possibility of my statements be "dangerously close to libel." and how I should consider myself "warned".
Really?
Perhaps you should re-read my posts here, as I have not said anything that I have knowingly published as fact, that is not substantiated. In fact I have very often said that, many of my posts are "In my Opinion", and that there could certainly be others who would disagree with me on things. However if you really have the time, desire and money to put this to a court, I guess, go ahead. I don't really see what else to really say about that. Other then REALLY? Seems a bit frivolous to me as I have never once stated that your company does not make a quality product, just that in my opinion, there is now a better option people should at least consider. Not to mention that I personally called you and asked you very specific questions to ensure that I did not mislead anyone. I find it interesting that you now come at me with things like 'Liable'.
At any rate, I have done my level best to try to stay away from bashing anyone's particular product. There are things here that I believe make the OS Giken a better product. That is it. You can choose to agree with me or not, that is your right as a consumer. I would think at very least, however, everyone would agree that idea of a new product being offered for consideration, would be a good thing, not a bad. Especially this one. Perhaps I am mistaken, and if I have offended anyone here, please do accept my very sincere apology to you as well.
Well I am sure that this will continue, whether I want it to or not at this point, please forgive me if I do not simply let it drop, but trying to strong arm me with an empty threat, is simply not sitting too well with me. Integrity is one of the things that I hold to more then most, and trying to bully me away with a threat of litigation, where there is no real case of such, is not going work out well for you Matt. I honestly expected more from you Matt. To not even discuss with me personally first but instead use this forum to vent, well I am sure everyone can see where I am coming from here.
Warmest Regards, to all.
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
01-11-2010, 08:15 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
THE OS GIKEN HAS BEEN REJECTED BY PORSCHE IN COMPARITIVE LSD TRACK TESTS IN CUP CARS ... NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE ... IN TWO DIFFERENT TESTS DONE A YEAR APART. IN FACT, THE OS GIKEN WAS SINGLED OUT BY PORSCHE'S PRO DRIVERS AS HAVING THE WORST EXIT STEER CHARACTERISTICS OF ALL THE VARIOUS LSDS TESTED.
01-11-2010, 08:24 PM
#40
So I would like to make one additional comment here, as I have recently spoken to Matt at Guard.
What most people probably do not realize here is that Matt is actually just down a couple of mile away from us here. We see each other quite a bit.
We are both in agreement that this has gotten way out of hand, and honestly our efforts would be better put to use in other endeavors. Matt has been and will always be considered a good friend in my eyes. I would like apologize for running this into the ground, in ways that do not become either me or some of the other parties involved in this conversation. There is some history that should never have played as much of a factor here as it ended up doing, I fully admit that some my posts here were not of the most professional nature, and would ask for the forgiveness of not only the parties that it impacted, but also the viewers here on Rennlist, as well. I will endeavor try to keep some of my passions to a more controlled level, and not let them get out of hand here again.
The reality is that there are a ton of products on the market, what one person loves, another may hate. It really does depend on your own personal preferences. Do you research and ask a lot of questions and generally speaking you will find yourselves coming out okay.
I will be updating with a new thread here, regarding the adjustability of the OS Giken, which some of you have asked me to do online here. Future comparisons will no longer single out a particular manufacturer, so please do not ask for a direct comparison from me again. I find that it simply causes too many issues, and causes feeling to get hurt, that really do not need to be.
Matt you are a stand up man and I greatly appreciate the time that you took from your busy day to discuss this with me personally. Very Professional, and good on you.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
What most people probably do not realize here is that Matt is actually just down a couple of mile away from us here. We see each other quite a bit.
We are both in agreement that this has gotten way out of hand, and honestly our efforts would be better put to use in other endeavors. Matt has been and will always be considered a good friend in my eyes. I would like apologize for running this into the ground, in ways that do not become either me or some of the other parties involved in this conversation. There is some history that should never have played as much of a factor here as it ended up doing, I fully admit that some my posts here were not of the most professional nature, and would ask for the forgiveness of not only the parties that it impacted, but also the viewers here on Rennlist, as well. I will endeavor try to keep some of my passions to a more controlled level, and not let them get out of hand here again.
The reality is that there are a ton of products on the market, what one person loves, another may hate. It really does depend on your own personal preferences. Do you research and ask a lot of questions and generally speaking you will find yourselves coming out okay.
I will be updating with a new thread here, regarding the adjustability of the OS Giken, which some of you have asked me to do online here. Future comparisons will no longer single out a particular manufacturer, so please do not ask for a direct comparison from me again. I find that it simply causes too many issues, and causes feeling to get hurt, that really do not need to be.
Matt you are a stand up man and I greatly appreciate the time that you took from your busy day to discuss this with me personally. Very Professional, and good on you.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
01-11-2010, 08:27 PM
#41
Richard 993 turbo- While I would certainly agree with you that would be a very bold statement indeed, there to my knowledge has never been a test of this nature ever run. Until I see some print of it actually taking place, I choose believe that it never happened. I checked with OS Giken, as well, and they know of no direct comparison either. I can't find any reference to it any where online. So take that for what it is worth I guess.
Erik Johnson
Erik Johnson
01-11-2010, 09:20 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Erik,
Thank you for the phone call and the public apology. It's appreciated. Hopefully we can put this thing behind us and move on to other things. After all, we all love these cars...
Thank you for the phone call and the public apology. It's appreciated. Hopefully we can put this thing behind us and move on to other things. After all, we all love these cars...
01-12-2010, 06:09 AM
#43
Racer
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Glad to see you guys sorting this out and moving forward... was looking more and more uglier each day and TBH I was waiting on the Mods stepping in and taking action, this was doing both companies no favors whatsoever.
I can see exactly why Paul and Matt were responding in this manner, it really was starting to heat up and when competitors do make comments against your product/company it's only natural that you will defend it, they really don't have much option and I don't blame them.
I'm not taking sides but I have spoke with Paul, Matt and Erik and they all seem great guys... we know the GT units are superb, their Rep says it all and the OS Giken looks promising also, just do what you do best and push your products out there for us guys to use.
Good luck to both companies in the future
I can see exactly why Paul and Matt were responding in this manner, it really was starting to heat up and when competitors do make comments against your product/company it's only natural that you will defend it, they really don't have much option and I don't blame them.
I'm not taking sides but I have spoke with Paul, Matt and Erik and they all seem great guys... we know the GT units are superb, their Rep says it all and the OS Giken looks promising also, just do what you do best and push your products out there for us guys to use.
Good luck to both companies in the future
01-15-2010, 04:22 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
I am late to this thread but I have several OSgiken diffs. I an very pleased with the performance.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...7-cup-lsd.html
This post sums up my actual experience with OSgiken LSD's in my GT2 and Honda S2000 race car. As I stated I do not have any experience with Guards LSD's in Porsche applications and would have been wary of the OSgiken, if I didn't already have 1 in the S2000 and been very satisfied. I guess my main thought is there is another viable LSD option for Porsche's.
Peter
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...7-cup-lsd.html
This post sums up my actual experience with OSgiken LSD's in my GT2 and Honda S2000 race car. As I stated I do not have any experience with Guards LSD's in Porsche applications and would have been wary of the OSgiken, if I didn't already have 1 in the S2000 and been very satisfied. I guess my main thought is there is another viable LSD option for Porsche's.
Peter