Seat Back Brace Recommendations
02-26-2009, 12:21 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Seat Back Brace Recommendations
For those that require Seat Back Braces (ie: '03 and older) - what type of brace do you have ?
1) Brey Krause (BK-9020) @ $290
2) IO Port @ $90 - has only 20 sq in contact - insufficient for a
Composite Seat
I used the IO Port on my prior car - but it had a Kirkey All Aluminum Road Race Seat.
Pls advise... Thanks !
Bill Farrell
'03 GT3 Cup
'02 996 TT - DD
1) Brey Krause (BK-9020) @ $290
2) IO Port @ $90 - has only 20 sq in contact - insufficient for a
Composite Seat
I used the IO Port on my prior car - but it had a Kirkey All Aluminum Road Race Seat.
Pls advise... Thanks !
Bill Farrell
'03 GT3 Cup
'02 996 TT - DD
02-26-2009, 01:44 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Bill, I'd suggest getting a legal dated seat rather than installing a seat back brace. You'll get differing opinions and mine is just an opinion, however, I do not like seat back braces with a composite seat. They are designed to flex and I think that if you back into a wall, the seat back brace will transfer much of the impact to your spine. *** Just my opinion ***
02-26-2009, 05:10 PM
#3
I concur with Geoffrey. Every time a car I drove had a seatback brace in tech, it was damaged accidentally and removed prior to the first session on track....we were however able to repair the brace and reinstall it for the next tech session....lol.
I believe the flex to be far more safe in an incident than slamming my spinal area into a 30 inch plate of padded steel on impact...Just my opinion also...
I believe the flex to be far more safe in an incident than slamming my spinal area into a 30 inch plate of padded steel on impact...Just my opinion also...
02-26-2009, 05:10 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Bill, I'd suggest getting a legal dated seat rather than installing a seat back brace. You'll get differing opinions and mine is just an opinion, however, I do not like seat back braces with a composite seat. They are designed to flex and I think that if you back into a wall, the seat back brace will transfer much of the impact to your spine. *** Just my opinion ***
I put a new Recaro hans carbon fiber seat in my '73, replacing the Kirkey. It's legal without the back brace. I had the IOPORT brace already, bolted to the old seat. So I attached the FIA type hard rollbar padding onto the brace and put it up against the back of my Recaro (not pressing hard).
I don't NEED the back brace, but with the thick foam to flex, I thought it might be good to leave it there. I assume it's legal, as it's not a REQUIRED brace, even though the contact area is less?
Glen posted while I was posting, I guess he would say I should remove it.
03-01-2009, 07:13 PM
#5
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Well...
I'm a bit on the fence regarding back braces. I'd like to see some testing done to prove my gut reactions. In the abstract, and as has been mentioned here already, it would seem that you would not necessarily want something that could act as a potential pressure point or fulcrum to exert unknown loads on the seat back if it were to contact the brace. So too would you not want anything to restrict the natural motion of a seat that is designed to flex and withstand certain loads. These are the two most common infered exceptions to braces, and they sound very reasonable.
Having said that, if the surface area and placement of the brace were correct (quite large, and AT shoulder height), undue stress to the seat material should not be a factor at all, as the motion of the mass acting upon it (the torso) will be completely eliminated if the shoulders are stopped/controlled. The load from the torso would be controlled at the the point of its greatest kinetic energy - the shoulders. If the brace were TOO LOW (below shoulder height), and/or the surface area were too small, then I would fear for the integrity of the seat shell.
A further point to consider is that excess motion is not helpful in reducing stress on the body. Anything that increases any form of whiplash effect should be avoided, and the flex of a plastic seat certainly stands to fall in that category. It is far safer to have very little give at all in any bolstering that the body will act upon (properly padding of course). This has been proven in countless open wheel crashes of horrifying magnitude.
If you also consider that because of its shape, a high quality seat shell will likely flex the least in a directly rearward manner, I'm not certain that any fears of contact with a proper back brace are warranted. The more solid the seat, the less I would worry. It is also interesting to note that the manner in which a seat will deform in a rear hit is absolutely not helpful in keeping an occupant restrained. The seat back tends to recline as the sides pull inward, allowing the occupant to potentially slide up and back. A back brace would stop this from happening.
I might be more concerned with the seat mounting itself. If the seat were to come adrift, the only thing waiting to impact the seat is tubing, and that is definitely not a load supporting shape where seat impact is concerned. It could very well be that our lone Club Race fatality - which involved this very scenario - could have been avoided if a back brace were present.
How's that, Bill?
I'm a bit on the fence regarding back braces. I'd like to see some testing done to prove my gut reactions. In the abstract, and as has been mentioned here already, it would seem that you would not necessarily want something that could act as a potential pressure point or fulcrum to exert unknown loads on the seat back if it were to contact the brace. So too would you not want anything to restrict the natural motion of a seat that is designed to flex and withstand certain loads. These are the two most common infered exceptions to braces, and they sound very reasonable.
Having said that, if the surface area and placement of the brace were correct (quite large, and AT shoulder height), undue stress to the seat material should not be a factor at all, as the motion of the mass acting upon it (the torso) will be completely eliminated if the shoulders are stopped/controlled. The load from the torso would be controlled at the the point of its greatest kinetic energy - the shoulders. If the brace were TOO LOW (below shoulder height), and/or the surface area were too small, then I would fear for the integrity of the seat shell.
A further point to consider is that excess motion is not helpful in reducing stress on the body. Anything that increases any form of whiplash effect should be avoided, and the flex of a plastic seat certainly stands to fall in that category. It is far safer to have very little give at all in any bolstering that the body will act upon (properly padding of course). This has been proven in countless open wheel crashes of horrifying magnitude.
If you also consider that because of its shape, a high quality seat shell will likely flex the least in a directly rearward manner, I'm not certain that any fears of contact with a proper back brace are warranted. The more solid the seat, the less I would worry. It is also interesting to note that the manner in which a seat will deform in a rear hit is absolutely not helpful in keeping an occupant restrained. The seat back tends to recline as the sides pull inward, allowing the occupant to potentially slide up and back. A back brace would stop this from happening.
I might be more concerned with the seat mounting itself. If the seat were to come adrift, the only thing waiting to impact the seat is tubing, and that is definitely not a load supporting shape where seat impact is concerned. It could very well be that our lone Club Race fatality - which involved this very scenario - could have been avoided if a back brace were present.
How's that, Bill?
03-03-2009, 08:08 PM
#6
Track Day
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: danbury Ct
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buy the seat
Bill,
You are going to spend a hundred dollars on the brace,then pay a couple hundred to have holes drilled into your 100k cup car roll cage when we are talking about safety here.for half the price of a new set of tires you can get a new seat???? I may even have something for you.call me
You are going to spend a hundred dollars on the brace,then pay a couple hundred to have holes drilled into your 100k cup car roll cage when we are talking about safety here.for half the price of a new set of tires you can get a new seat???? I may even have something for you.call me
03-09-2009, 03:07 AM
#7
This one is dead obvious to me. If I back the car into a wall, under no circumstances do I want my spine tied directly into the cage. That's suicide. You can argue it all you want but I'm not getting in that car.
You spent all that money on the car and even more learning how to drive it. Don't try to save a buck now on some safety equipment.
Buy a new seat and sell your old one to a DE Student. If it's in good shape you'll get most of the value back.
Does PCA require a HANS device yet? If so you probably want a new seat anyway. I struggled with my HANS device until I got the Recaro HANS seat. Now it fits like it's a part of the seat. It has great side impact protection too.
You spent all that money on the car and even more learning how to drive it. Don't try to save a buck now on some safety equipment.
Buy a new seat and sell your old one to a DE Student. If it's in good shape you'll get most of the value back.
Does PCA require a HANS device yet? If so you probably want a new seat anyway. I struggled with my HANS device until I got the Recaro HANS seat. Now it fits like it's a part of the seat. It has great side impact protection too.
