PCA Club Racing: B Class GT3 or GTC3 GT3 Cup
10-09-2007, 08:35 PM
#1
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PCA Club Racing: B Class GT3 or GTC3 GT3 Cup
996 GT3 Cup prices are very appealing.
For a Rookie PCA Club Racing driver, what would be a better option, a B-class street GT3 I already have, or a 1999+ 996 GT3 Cup?
I'm looking at two main factors: fun and financial.
What's the oldest year 996 GT3 Cup to get that is competitive in GTC3?
Thanks
Rad
For a Rookie PCA Club Racing driver, what would be a better option, a B-class street GT3 I already have, or a 1999+ 996 GT3 Cup?
I'm looking at two main factors: fun and financial.
What's the oldest year 996 GT3 Cup to get that is competitive in GTC3?
Thanks
Rad
10-09-2007, 09:34 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
I am biased but I think it would make more sense to buy the cup then try and convert a street car into a track car. There are many good ones available for $75-$85k that don't need anything and you will be much safer in a factoy race car then a street car with a roll bar or cage added to it.
just my .02 worth
just my .02 worth
10-09-2007, 09:37 PM
#3
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This should be interesting....
Everyone I've ever met who has converted a street car to full race spec's has said that it would have been cheaper just to buy a Cup Car to begin with. One So Cal racer with a 6-cup just converted his street 7-GT3 into a full GTA race car. Besides the cost of the new GT3, he spent another $100k in making it into a cup car. You do the math...
As for the preferences among Cups, the 03'-05' cups have a different motor that produces slightly more HP than the 00-02' motors. They also have adjustable shocks and closer ratio gearing in 3rd-6th. That being said, I have not found any cup to be noticably faster than another. A good driver can compete in any year model. Case in point, I regularily get my *** handed to me by Mark Anderson in a 00' cup with an 02' motor. His competition out West here is Drew Waterhouse in an 04' cup. They are fun to watch but I'm usually battling for 3rd. behind them with other 03-05 cups. At Miller Motorsports 2 weekends ago in PCA's 80 car Enduro, the top 2 Cups were both 02' models. They finished 3rd & 4th in the Enduro and similarily in Sunday's sprint races. There were 8 other 03'-05'cups behind them including me.
So.... the advantage is really up to the driver. I will add that in rebuilding the older motors the parts have become scarce if available at all, and they are more expensive. Most will be upgrading to the newer 03-05' specs which adds to the cost of a rebuild. At least those later parts are readily available in Europe since Porsche Motorsports won't sell them in the US (they don't want the competition).....
Everyone I've ever met who has converted a street car to full race spec's has said that it would have been cheaper just to buy a Cup Car to begin with. One So Cal racer with a 6-cup just converted his street 7-GT3 into a full GTA race car. Besides the cost of the new GT3, he spent another $100k in making it into a cup car. You do the math...
As for the preferences among Cups, the 03'-05' cups have a different motor that produces slightly more HP than the 00-02' motors. They also have adjustable shocks and closer ratio gearing in 3rd-6th. That being said, I have not found any cup to be noticably faster than another. A good driver can compete in any year model. Case in point, I regularily get my *** handed to me by Mark Anderson in a 00' cup with an 02' motor. His competition out West here is Drew Waterhouse in an 04' cup. They are fun to watch but I'm usually battling for 3rd. behind them with other 03-05 cups. At Miller Motorsports 2 weekends ago in PCA's 80 car Enduro, the top 2 Cups were both 02' models. They finished 3rd & 4th in the Enduro and similarily in Sunday's sprint races. There were 8 other 03'-05'cups behind them including me.
So.... the advantage is really up to the driver. I will add that in rebuilding the older motors the parts have become scarce if available at all, and they are more expensive. Most will be upgrading to the newer 03-05' specs which adds to the cost of a rebuild. At least those later parts are readily available in Europe since Porsche Motorsports won't sell them in the US (they don't want the competition).....
10-09-2007, 11:26 PM
#5
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Im realizing this very quickely...and searching...
To take a small off...say you had all the instruction you needed taken care of (pro driver help etc) and adapted quickely with a goal of racing some pretty big series down the line...would you hop into a 04 gt3 cup, or take the bite and go for the 05/06 and just relearn/adapt to the new technology(and lack there of as far as the ABS) thats bound to be in all the cars built from now on? Not only that, its hard to find a cup car thats not been slain thats NOT a RS or 450 hp beast...haha...the 997s are "only" 400 with a bit more weight arent they?
To take a small off...say you had all the instruction you needed taken care of (pro driver help etc) and adapted quickely with a goal of racing some pretty big series down the line...would you hop into a 04 gt3 cup, or take the bite and go for the 05/06 and just relearn/adapt to the new technology(and lack there of as far as the ABS) thats bound to be in all the cars built from now on? Not only that, its hard to find a cup car thats not been slain thats NOT a RS or 450 hp beast...haha...the 997s are "only" 400 with a bit more weight arent they?
10-09-2007, 11:37 PM
#6
GT3 player par excellence
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cup it the way to go if you are racing.
10-10-2007, 12:42 AM
#7
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[QUOTE=NJ-GT;4658157]996 GT3 Cup prices are very appealing.
For a Rookie PCA Club Racing driver, what would be a better option, a B-class street GT3 I already have, or a 1999+ 996 GT3 Cup?
I'm looking at two main factors: fun and financial.
What's the oldest year 996 GT3 Cup to get that is competitive in GTC3?
Hi NJ,
I think it would be fine to start racing with your GT3 street car, with the current modifications you have (with maybe a few safety upgrades if rules require). For example if you have Tech Equipment roll bar, it will not be legal for Club racing, you will need a bolt in bar, like GMG's.
The advantage of this route is you can go racing right now, with limited additional dollars spent on your car. You can race on Sport Cups, which are cheaper than slicks and last longer.
However if you do go this route to start, "DO NOT" go spending any additional dollars on modifications if you want to continue racing. After a year, if you want to make the move in class switch over to a Cup car. The cost of running your GT3 may be $1,000 per weekend. The cost of running the Cup will be closer to $3,000 per weekend.
If and when you decide to acquire a Cup car buy the newest Cup car you can afford. Focus on history (limited wrecks) and condition (current and who has worked on it recently) current hours on motor and tranny. One car may look cheaper, but not be as good a deal as a more expensive car in better condition with lower hours.
You can be competitive in any year car. But an equal driver in a newer car will be hard to beat. There will always be a race for you and if you go to events like Road America and Watkins Glen the competition is awesome.
Whatever you do, just go racing you will not regret it (well except for your bank account maybe).
JCM
For a Rookie PCA Club Racing driver, what would be a better option, a B-class street GT3 I already have, or a 1999+ 996 GT3 Cup?
I'm looking at two main factors: fun and financial.
What's the oldest year 996 GT3 Cup to get that is competitive in GTC3?
Hi NJ,
I think it would be fine to start racing with your GT3 street car, with the current modifications you have (with maybe a few safety upgrades if rules require). For example if you have Tech Equipment roll bar, it will not be legal for Club racing, you will need a bolt in bar, like GMG's.
The advantage of this route is you can go racing right now, with limited additional dollars spent on your car. You can race on Sport Cups, which are cheaper than slicks and last longer.
However if you do go this route to start, "DO NOT" go spending any additional dollars on modifications if you want to continue racing. After a year, if you want to make the move in class switch over to a Cup car. The cost of running your GT3 may be $1,000 per weekend. The cost of running the Cup will be closer to $3,000 per weekend.
If and when you decide to acquire a Cup car buy the newest Cup car you can afford. Focus on history (limited wrecks) and condition (current and who has worked on it recently) current hours on motor and tranny. One car may look cheaper, but not be as good a deal as a more expensive car in better condition with lower hours.
You can be competitive in any year car. But an equal driver in a newer car will be hard to beat. There will always be a race for you and if you go to events like Road America and Watkins Glen the competition is awesome.
Whatever you do, just go racing you will not regret it (well except for your bank account maybe).
JCM
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10-10-2007, 12:46 AM
#8
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Is there any literature about the differences between the 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 996 GT3 Cups?
I'm only considering the 996 GT3 Cup, as the 997 GT3 Cup is out of my price range, and it doesn't have the Rookie-Required ABS.
Thanks a lot for the PM sent by some of you, and the information posted here.
My interest is in SCCA, PCA and POC Club Racing, Time Trials and Autocrosses. This interest converts a street car into a never ending upgrade work. At this point, I think I have reached the limits of compromise between a street/track car with my GT3.
Rad
I'm only considering the 996 GT3 Cup, as the 997 GT3 Cup is out of my price range, and it doesn't have the Rookie-Required ABS.
Thanks a lot for the PM sent by some of you, and the information posted here.
My interest is in SCCA, PCA and POC Club Racing, Time Trials and Autocrosses. This interest converts a street car into a never ending upgrade work. At this point, I think I have reached the limits of compromise between a street/track car with my GT3.
Rad
10-10-2007, 01:00 AM
#9
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Other than the price...is the ABS the only thing that irks you about the 997?
Why dont you just race your gt3 (who cares about place for now) untill you clear your rookie stuff and then get a 997?
Why dont you just race your gt3 (who cares about place for now) untill you clear your rookie stuff and then get a 997?
10-10-2007, 11:20 AM
#11
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10-10-2007, 01:29 PM
#12
Drifting
Isn't the running cost of a GT3 cup car astronomical compared to the street GT3? I thought that a cup required a $30k rebuild at or around 80k hours on the motor. Isn't it something like $1k/hour to run one? Surely the street GT3 is *way* less than that! (?).
It would be interesting to see what people say about running costs. I know some people don't want to add it up, but realistically it should be considered when looking into a Cup Car purchase. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
It would be interesting to see what people say about running costs. I know some people don't want to add it up, but realistically it should be considered when looking into a Cup Car purchase. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
10-10-2007, 02:12 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Isn't the running cost of a GT3 cup car astronomical compared to the street GT3? I thought that a cup required a $30k rebuild at or around 80k hours on the motor. Isn't it something like $1k/hour to run one? Surely the street GT3 is *way* less than that! (?).
It would be interesting to see what people say about running costs. I know some people don't want to add it up, but realistically it should be considered when looking into a Cup Car purchase. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
It would be interesting to see what people say about running costs. I know some people don't want to add it up, but realistically it should be considered when looking into a Cup Car purchase. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
10-10-2007, 02:31 PM
#14
Drifting
Just to be clear. I mean racing.
The cost of a GTC3 class car to run all season is expensive. The OP would be well advised to consider those costs vs the cost of his current B Class GT3.
I don't know the exact numbers, I would love someone to pony up some #'s to compare the relative running costs of jumping up to GTC3 not just the initial outlay.
The OP does not mention mod'ing a B class car up to a higher class, just simply the initial cost of a GTC3 car.
The cost of a GTC3 class car to run all season is expensive. The OP would be well advised to consider those costs vs the cost of his current B Class GT3.
I don't know the exact numbers, I would love someone to pony up some #'s to compare the relative running costs of jumping up to GTC3 not just the initial outlay.
The OP does not mention mod'ing a B class car up to a higher class, just simply the initial cost of a GTC3 car.
you may be right for DE events, but acutal racing, I think other costs come in with the street GT that dont come as quickely with the Cup...All the modding and then using compromise parts (with some degree perf, some comfort) have to eventually take a toll on that cost...plus, the cup is IIRC cheaper to repair when SMALL incidents happen. I know my turbo was aroudn 120 or so cost in all said and done and Im STILL using some street stuff/oem stuff thats stupid expensive rather than some cheaper alternative...plus, I go through pads in that 3556lb thing like a fat kid through cake...and yes, even when I really lay OFF heavy usage...haha
