exmedia

I've been driving my 1990 964 cab in time trials for about 7 months, and recently my front rotors became warped. I was running Pagid pads (don't know which flavor), went to a different shop (cheaper), had genuine Porsche rotors installed and Pagid pads. Not knowing squat about performance pads, I could not specify which Pagid pads, and I don't know what was used. Two track days later my new rotors are totally "warped," and I had to have another set of front rotors installed, this time with Mintex pads. Started reading all about brake pads/rotors/bedding-in, etc., etc., and find that I may have been using a pad that was too low temperature and which may have melted onto the rotor creating "bumps" which can feel just like a warped rotor. I will get my newest old rotors turned for future use.

So, my question is, for track days on high speed tracks (in my rather heavy car) that put high requirements on braking, what is the best pad to use?

Thanks,

-Richard Pattie

forklift

Hi Richard,

You can do a search and you will find a ton of info, although there is still some debate as to whether rotors can actually warp, or if it is always just pad transfer. I just went through this in the spring with Pagid Oranges twice and fixed the problem by buying an extra set of Hawk Blues and using them for scrapers. They are so abrasive that they scraped all of the Orange residue off the rotors. Problem was fixed, and much cheaper than new rotors (which I had just replaced, apparently unnecessarily). I also went to the Pagid Black race pad which also helped as the Oranges are infamous for leaving residue. I think the Blacks also stop my car much better. I still have the Hawks, and hopefully won't have to use them again, but will if needed. I don't want to use the Hawks for regular pads as they will wear the rotors out fairly quickly from what I have read. You can actually feel them digging into the iron rotors, kind of like scratching nails on a chalkboard.

Here is a link to a thread I posted earlier about Toyo's and "warped" rotors as well: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...d+rotors+smith

Bill Gregory

Richard,

As Jim mentioned this has been discussed quite a bit on the Forums. People use 964's successfully on the track, so you're not breaking new ground. I've used Pagid Oranges for years, with no clumping issues, which I attribute to meticulous break-in, as specified by Pagid, and maybe slotted rotors have some impact, too. You can read the Pagid break-in instructions here.

If you suspect that pad material clumping is the issue, I'd recommend Jim's approach...buy a set of Hawk Blue's and clean the rotor off. When you have your rotors turned, you're taking off valuable metal that contributes to the rotors abiliity to absorb and throw off heat from braking. You may have already read Carroll Smiths article on warped brake discs here.

I'm also a believer in cryogenically freezing rotors. I've found that has helped rotors last longer than non-frozen rotors. Of course, ymmv. I get mine from Diversified Cryogenics (no affiliation, just satisfied customer). They can slot rotors, too.

Another consideration is getting more cooling air to the rotors, and it's tough to do in a 964. About the only thing you can do is to remove the fog lamps and run a hose to the wheel well. There are several kits which have all the parts (some with scoop and fog lamp and others scoop only). I know a couple which have used MA Shaw's kit, and other vendors, including Porsche (in the Tequipment line), offer them. I've posted pictures of mine previously in the 964 Forum.

There are a variety of pads available, and you need to decide if you're swapping pads (street vs track) or not. I run Pagid Oranges all the time, but others might swap them out for off track work, as they do squeel when cold (which is most the time in street usage). In the pure race pad category, Pagid Oranges and Blacks are used, Hawk Blues, and Performance Friction 97's are three vendors pads. There are combo street/track pads like Pagid Blue's, Hawk HP+, Performance Friction Z-rated, and of course others. Spend some time searching Rennlist, you'll find some good discussion on the various pads.

GUMBALL

For Pagid questions, tech assistance, and help in choosing the correct pad for your application, send an email to Charlie at:
wrightwoodracing@earthlink.net

He is the west coast Pagid distributor, very knowledgeable, and a very nice guy.

Willard Bridgham 3

I used pagid oranges at the track and had material deposition on the rotors and I followed the bedding instructions carefully.

I switched to Hawk Blues as I was at the track a lot. For street driving, blues will wake the dead. I have since switched to Hawks HPS and Blacks and they work better on the street.

Any pad that has a high friction coeff and high temp is not going to be rotor friendly. Hard braking at the track is not rotor friendly.....

Weston Motorsports (in Pano) handles Hawks and is a very nice guy. Ask him for the Hawk pad book and look for high friction coeefficient, high temp pads for the track.

GUMBALL

I use Hawk blues on the front, and blacks on the rear of mine, for both street and track. They are a good compromise, and make no noise at all.......

If you need track pads for your car, why not contact a distributor directly (Hawk, Pagid, PFC, etc, whatever) explain your car and application, and make use of their expertice, rather than trying to choose part numbers from a catalogue?

TrackRat

Just a note to add regardiing Hawk Blues:

My experince with Hawk Blues is that they like to run up at the high end of their temperature spectrum. They start to fade at 950 degrees F or thereabouts, so that is the high end of the temp spectrum that they like to live at. Beyond that temperature, they fade away worse than ole' Douglas MacArthur. While they have decent cold bite on the rotors, running them too cool is not a happy thing for your rotor life. I ran a two-day event in the rain at WGI, and the consequent cool temps that the pads were operating at made them act like files on the rotors. The pads ate all the way down below the rotor gas slots, where I had not done that when running at full temp. They were a good seasoned set of rotors, too.

I just ordered a new set of rotors for my new-to-me RSA...Got the car last week.. I can't stay out of it!! 8^) However, I've got minor front rotor pulsating "hully-gullys". I Bought it sight unseen from CA, but with a PPI, so the warped rotor issue was known by me in advance. Perhaps the PO held the brakes on while stationary after a searing stop?

I'm enjoying the Porsche before the snow/sand/salt season chases me from the roads here in CT.

P.Po

Just a quick note... there is a company that manufactures pads out of Florida called Williams Performance Friction... they seemed to be VERY progessive and building pads cheaper and better then Pagid and Hawk. I have had nothing but great results with these brake pads. Not relation just a happy customer...

http://www.wpfri.com/

-Patrick