944 mods
09-09-2004, 12:01 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
944 mods
I have a 944 na, i wanna pull about 250hp @ the rw. What would be the best way to go about this? No, I dont want to buy a 951, and no im not even dreaming about installing a turbocharger. Im thinkin, port and polish chip etc. Anybody got any ideas?
09-09-2004, 01:58 AM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
Why? what could i expect to pull? I would imagine, i could pull at least 200, right??? Stock were lookin at what like 160hp right? Chip, and port and polish should gain at least, 20-30 hp right? If its never goin to happen what can I do?
What can i expect to get top??????
What can i expect to get top??????
09-09-2004, 11:52 AM
#4
Race Director
How much mony do you have to spend.
Chip port and polish... Hmm 5-10 hp.
160 hp ... At the fly wheel buddy. If you get 140 at the wheels you are sitting pretty.
250 at the flywheel
Chip port and polish... Hmm 5-10 hp.
160 hp ... At the fly wheel buddy. If you get 140 at the wheels you are sitting pretty.
250 at the flywheel
09-09-2004, 07:09 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
What would it cost me to supercharge it? What would it entail? What parts should i start collecting, and where can i find them?
09-09-2004, 07:12 PM
#7
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Without some form of forced induction or nitrous, you'll never get to 200hp at the crank, much less at the wheels.
It'll cost you 1500+ to supercharge it, plus a turbo tranny since you'll blow up your ring and pinion. At that point you've got over 200hp to the wheels. At that point you've also spent way more than a 951. There's a reason we tell everyone trying to make 944 power to buy a 951.
Sam
It'll cost you 1500+ to supercharge it, plus a turbo tranny since you'll blow up your ring and pinion. At that point you've got over 200hp to the wheels. At that point you've also spent way more than a 951. There's a reason we tell everyone trying to make 944 power to buy a 951.
Sam
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09-09-2004, 07:27 PM
#8
Race Director
Tone...
Why not just come out to a PCA autocross. We have nice autocross school and autocross set-up for Oct 9,10
If you want I can show you how fast even a stock 944 can be with a good driver.
Why not just come out to a PCA autocross. We have nice autocross school and autocross set-up for Oct 9,10
If you want I can show you how fast even a stock 944 can be with a good driver.
09-09-2004, 07:27 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Labor for me is free, what would it cost purely in parts?
09-09-2004, 09:27 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Im looking to gain more low end power out the gate, believe me ive top ended it more than once.
09-10-2004, 06:16 AM
#11
Three Wheelin'
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3 grand+ machining when all is done. Bore/stroke or turbo are the only options. Re gear the tranny can help you "launch" from the start. HINT- if I am reading you correctly Porsche is NOT a DRAG car!
Do a search on Turbo in an NA and you will see many opinions on gaining more HP but in the end you will get one answer buy a 951.
Your stock NA is 135 rwhp but doubt it is now after 17-20 years age and wear so even less than stock rating when new.
84-87 na is143-hp at the engine...88 is 158hp.......89 2.7L is 162hp
So to gain a rate of 250 rwhp you need an additional 115 hp rwhp 135+115= 250
Do a search on Turbo in an NA and you will see many opinions on gaining more HP but in the end you will get one answer buy a 951.
Your stock NA is 135 rwhp but doubt it is now after 17-20 years age and wear so even less than stock rating when new.
84-87 na is143-hp at the engine...88 is 158hp.......89 2.7L is 162hp
So to gain a rate of 250 rwhp you need an additional 115 hp rwhp 135+115= 250
09-10-2004, 06:51 AM
#12
6th Gear
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The 8valve 2,5 liter machine can actually be tuned quite heavilly. A raceteam here in sweden tuned their machine to 230hp at the crank a few years ago. And succussfully run it in endurance racing.
To reach that you must change to high compression pistons, use 4 separate throttle bodies, port, polish, balance, serious mapping with an aftermaket injection computer ,etc, etc. It can be done but isn't cheap or easy.
The only defence for doing this is that you are running in a class that has a 2,5l limit. Otherwise it is just plain madness and a waste of money.
To reach that you must change to high compression pistons, use 4 separate throttle bodies, port, polish, balance, serious mapping with an aftermaket injection computer ,etc, etc. It can be done but isn't cheap or easy.
The only defence for doing this is that you are running in a class that has a 2,5l limit. Otherwise it is just plain madness and a waste of money.
09-10-2004, 11:53 AM
#13
Race Director
Originally Posted by tone3721
Im looking to gain more low end power out the gate, believe me ive top ended it more than once.
So you drag race?
The drive train in 944 is not set-up very well for drag racing. Lots of stuff tends to break from hard launches. Only nice thing about the NA is not as much power to break stuff.
Top end... Hmm I have only reached about 110-115 mph on tracks in Arizona. May be 120 at Willow springs. I believe the actual top end is bit higher, but it takes long time to get there.
Please don't tell me you are street racing. It is stupid and for ignorant a-holes.
944's a great for the race track or autocross course. There plenty of opportunity to exercise your 944 in those events here in Phoenix. If you just want to street race... Well honestly I hope get thrown in jail before you hurt any one.
09-10-2004, 05:25 PM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
lol, um i dont street race, thats not saying i havent pushed the limits of my 944 a time or two, ive topped it at about 140. At that point the redline was getting pretty close and i didnt wanna push it. I would just like to gain i bit more 0-60 i find it kinda sluggish, my engine has about 1000 miles on the rebuild, chances are im pulling pretty close to full hp on my 88'. Im not a mechanic im actually a chemist, but i know plenty of gearheads who are capable of the work. Ive been thinkin that for pretty much just the cost of parts, i could do some tuning for very cheap. The advantage to that is i can do it a lil at a time, ie: collect parts slowly and the install them as opposed to, 10-15k capital at once to buy a 951.
09-10-2004, 05:55 PM
#15
Race Director
Glad to hear you don't street race.
There are folks that come to these boards looking for hp and street race. Not good for them and they really make responsible 944 owners look bad. Lets face it, 944's are pretty cheap to aquire and that means some folks buy them cheap with the idea of taking on others by street racing. Not good.
Honeslty where you rigth now is about as much and 2.5L 8V 944 will ever be.
The 1988 motor came with 10.2:1 Compression and was factory rated for 158 hp at the flywheel. Given a fresh rebuild you have as much power and most any 8 valve 944.
The 944 S 16 valve car has more (188) and the 89 944 2.7L car has slightly more power at 162.
All of these are flywheel HP numbers.
Locally I race in 944-spec and our cars typically run 130 to 135 hp at the rear wheels. We are allowed some minor engine mods, but not many. I'd expect your car to be in that power range at the wheels.
Simply put there are few simple power increasers for any non-turbo 944. There are chips, exhausts and alot of other bolt ons. If you are lucky you can gain 5-10 hp from them. That is at BEST. If you start digging into the motor you can maybe get more. On the east coast Jon Milledge does advertise ITS 944 motors at 185 flywheel hp. SCCA ITS racing is pretty restrictive, but within the rules I assume he maximized the engine within stock tolerances and gets a few more hp.
This process is very expensive and only valuable if you need to follow ITS rules. If you really want power from an NA motor is is possible, but there only two options. Forced induction (turbo or superchager) or larger displacement. I do know of some 3L 8v motor and shop that does that work. However even these cars with a "race" set-up are pushing maybe 210-230 at the rear wheels.
My stock 944 Turbo S way dynoed to 230 at the rear wheels. So given the cost which is in 3k to 5k range it makes little sense to spend that money for 220 wheel hp when Turbo's can do almost that stock and for another $300 you can easily get 250+ wheel hp.
So this why power increases to NA motors are not cost effective.
The best way to improve 0-60 times are to remove weight. My 944 is down to about 2450 lbs and even with its modest hp is pretty quick. Cost to do that was zero from my pocket, but this car is not really street able since all the interior has been stripped out of it. It is pretty fast on the track and is faster than stock 944 turbos. In fact my last runs at PIR showed me this car was just only a bit slower than stock motored race prepped 951's racing at approx full weight.
Really the best thing to do is to forget about 0-60 times. Acceleration is not really the strong suit to an 8v 944 NA. These cars are just not fast in straight line. They can be quite fast and rewarding in turns however. So focus less on straights and more on corners and you will enjoy the 944 much more. Autocross is really great place to learn the potential of the 944 NA. I drive a stock 83 944 at most PCA autocrosses. The car is very well balanced and inspite of its low power, age, soft suspension it still was fasts car on street tires. It beat out boxster's, 996's, 993, and lots of others. Granted alot of that speed came from driver, but my point is that most folks don't get anywhere near the potential from their cars that they could. So just by working on driver skills you can make the car appear much faster than simply by adding 15 hp. Plus in my mind it is much more rewarding to beat folks with skill rather than power.
Hey anybody can go fast in straight line. It takes skill to be fast in the corners.
PS... you should check out the local PCA autocross schedule. It is great fun, relativly cheap, and very low risk to equipment, plus the people are friendly too.
There are folks that come to these boards looking for hp and street race. Not good for them and they really make responsible 944 owners look bad. Lets face it, 944's are pretty cheap to aquire and that means some folks buy them cheap with the idea of taking on others by street racing. Not good.
Honeslty where you rigth now is about as much and 2.5L 8V 944 will ever be.
The 1988 motor came with 10.2:1 Compression and was factory rated for 158 hp at the flywheel. Given a fresh rebuild you have as much power and most any 8 valve 944.
The 944 S 16 valve car has more (188) and the 89 944 2.7L car has slightly more power at 162.
All of these are flywheel HP numbers.
Locally I race in 944-spec and our cars typically run 130 to 135 hp at the rear wheels. We are allowed some minor engine mods, but not many. I'd expect your car to be in that power range at the wheels.
Simply put there are few simple power increasers for any non-turbo 944. There are chips, exhausts and alot of other bolt ons. If you are lucky you can gain 5-10 hp from them. That is at BEST. If you start digging into the motor you can maybe get more. On the east coast Jon Milledge does advertise ITS 944 motors at 185 flywheel hp. SCCA ITS racing is pretty restrictive, but within the rules I assume he maximized the engine within stock tolerances and gets a few more hp.
This process is very expensive and only valuable if you need to follow ITS rules. If you really want power from an NA motor is is possible, but there only two options. Forced induction (turbo or superchager) or larger displacement. I do know of some 3L 8v motor and shop that does that work. However even these cars with a "race" set-up are pushing maybe 210-230 at the rear wheels.
My stock 944 Turbo S way dynoed to 230 at the rear wheels. So given the cost which is in 3k to 5k range it makes little sense to spend that money for 220 wheel hp when Turbo's can do almost that stock and for another $300 you can easily get 250+ wheel hp.
So this why power increases to NA motors are not cost effective.
The best way to improve 0-60 times are to remove weight. My 944 is down to about 2450 lbs and even with its modest hp is pretty quick. Cost to do that was zero from my pocket, but this car is not really street able since all the interior has been stripped out of it. It is pretty fast on the track and is faster than stock 944 turbos. In fact my last runs at PIR showed me this car was just only a bit slower than stock motored race prepped 951's racing at approx full weight.
Really the best thing to do is to forget about 0-60 times. Acceleration is not really the strong suit to an 8v 944 NA. These cars are just not fast in straight line. They can be quite fast and rewarding in turns however. So focus less on straights and more on corners and you will enjoy the 944 much more. Autocross is really great place to learn the potential of the 944 NA. I drive a stock 83 944 at most PCA autocrosses. The car is very well balanced and inspite of its low power, age, soft suspension it still was fasts car on street tires. It beat out boxster's, 996's, 993, and lots of others. Granted alot of that speed came from driver, but my point is that most folks don't get anywhere near the potential from their cars that they could. So just by working on driver skills you can make the car appear much faster than simply by adding 15 hp. Plus in my mind it is much more rewarding to beat folks with skill rather than power.
Hey anybody can go fast in straight line. It takes skill to be fast in the corners.
PS... you should check out the local PCA autocross schedule. It is great fun, relativly cheap, and very low risk to equipment, plus the people are friendly too.