AndrewP

Maybe that is the allure of the 911. The challenge is definitely there. One must be very cognizant of weight transfer at all times. I will never race, but just getting smooth with my 991 TTS is enough for me. Plumbing its capabilities on a track is great fun and can be very satisfying.

stpatsday

Great point. I don't think you are alone in your views. Seems we are living in a time of the greatest technology and fastest automobiles ever made; yet the race tracks today are showcasing the politically correct answer to 'global warming'. Look at what F1 has become. Sad indeed.

stpatsday

Yes, I agree the older Porsches could be the best Porsches. I too, own a Panermera Turbo, and wanted to add a vintage 911. My search began with cars from the years 1970-73 as those were in the top of my price range. As you know, many cars for sale I saw began to get away from me in terms of money. Some fell into the category of "nice car, but may need more time and money-- plus, would this car be too old to drive??" Consequently I focused on the 993 market and found something perfect for my driving style. It has bilstein shocks, RS sway bars, red turbo brakes, ECU tune, air box and exhaust. Yet, this 993 maintains its factory look inside and out. But it drives, rides and stops like a modern car despite having a total vintage look and feel. I love driving this Porsche at 50 mph on back roads with the windows down. Take a look at a 993 if you feel it.

Btw- great thread you started. Thanks for all the posts.

GVA-SFO

I feel that another recent "news" is quite strange : the last Audi S8 Plus (V8 Twin Turbo), is now offering the nice power of 605 hp !
Or : I'm not sure to understand the brand/segments policies of the VW group !
(For sure, thinking about a comp with the Panamera Turbo S)

When Mr. F. Piësch was still at Audi, OK, I would understand this quite easily, as I always had the feeling that the biggest problem of Mr. Piësch was the fact that his name was Piësch, and not Porsche, this when his grandfa, was Dr. Ferdinand Porsche First.)

GVA-SFO

Interesting, today, I was at the Quail (with the Panamera, ..of this topic !!).
The Porsche (beautiful) center was like abandoned, even showing super cars like the GT4, or an incredible (museum) 904, the bar was fresh, with AC, all to be perfect, but.. very-very small amount of people there !



And, crossing the road, on the Singer booth, super crowded, a incredible activity, etc..
If I would be the boss at Porsche, I would fire the marketing manager.
Oups, I think I would have fired in the nowhere land, ..as I do not think there is any one here !!!

Hopefully, a British (very clever) person, a former singer, (Catherine Wheel) did build the EXACT right car, ..in America, using the EXACT right engine !
(Who would have believed that it is possible today to build a 4 liter flat six, air cooled, offering close to 400hp, in such a perfect car ?)
Some years ago, "they" put water in our engines, singing a song saying that without that, it was impossible to cool it !!!
..And now :



YES, this is an AIR COOLED 4.0 liter, flat six, offering 390HP !!!!!!!!!!!
"Hello Porsche, this is California, do you copy ?"



And, it really looks like the best connoisseurs seems to agree : (Rob and Jay having a long discussion together today.)

Panaseeya

I was there a couple days ago for the Concours on the Avenue but it didn't seem like the Porsche event was going to be interesting enough to stick around for. You didn't get to try any of the cars, did you?

GVA-SFO

No, did not tried any, (..while, I was invited to drive ***One*** (not a Porsche, ..but still a "P" ** car !), but ..I declined, being a bit shy to do so, and anyway, to be honest, that one is outside of my car budget !!)
Frankly, the one that I would love to try, ..is the GT4, but, ..on track !
(But I was not invited for that )
..and the one that I would be ready to buy, is not a Cayman GT4, ..but a Boxster GT4, ..a car that is not made (or, even planned to be made) by "P" !!
Hey, we are in California, the sun is here, so, the good Barchetta's are the cars for here.

(And for those that think that a race car should be "closed", I would just answer that ..I never seen a "closed" Formula 1.)

** Now, years later I can say, that in this specific case, this "P" car invite to drive ..was for a Pagani !

GVA-SFO

Had a “strange” experience this week-end, while driving back from Monterey to the Bay area had suddenly, successively “Oil Pressure control not working”, and, the oil pressure down to zero, with no other red lights of any kind !
Then, all back to fine, with display of normal oil pressure.
(I had that problem many times with my last 996, and knew that was monitoring problem, and was sure that it was not a real oil pressure problem !)

Then about 5 minutes later, “Coolant low level” warning and, water temp suddenly going from normal to top high, with red light flashing.
I stopped immediately, turned the car off, with no sign of any high temp. The oil temp was just normal, and this all time.
Was very close to call Porsche Road assistance, but:

Decided to turn it back in 30 sec. later, to see everything running fine, with water temp just normal !
Back on the road, and 10 min later : same thing. I stopped again, and wait about 20 sec, and turned back in, and again, everything back to normal !
Back again on the road.
5 min later, same thing again, and as oil temp was all OK, I decided to ignore the message, ..and the scary water temp to the top, red flashing, as, I have never seen a engine cooling back to normal from top high temp in less than 20 seconds !
About 1 minute later, the message disappeared from the dash board, and water temp went down to normal !!
..And I was back home, when engine bay was really looking at normal running temp, all good !

My conclusion : I have either “computer problem” or a water coolant level problem.
It is dam strange that in the later case, if the computer works fine and found a low coolant level, he would warn the driver by showing instantly the water temp as being to the top, with red light flashing !
OR : Why using temp indication with untrue value to warn driver that coolant level is low !!!

I will do some work to find out, and ..will see !

GVA-SFO

This morning, (when engine was totally cold), I checked the level, and effectively, it was low !
(The coolant level display is just under the cap, i.e.: not very clever either, as you have to open the cap, thing that you should never do when engine is hot, ..to be able to see the coolant level !! Or : no way to know the level when engine was just running.)

I added close to one quart !

Now, this clearly raised a question on me : Do I have a leak ?
This week, have to do a San Francisco to Portland, so, the idea of a potential leak is not quite nice !
(May take the CTT, ..but, frankly, the ride comfort of the CTT is at miles of differences with the Panamera 4S ..both having air suspension !)

But, in the mean time, this experience seems to show that when the coolant goes to “low level”, the dashboard shows a normal message (coolant low level), but, in addition to that, the ECU makes the water temp gauge going to the roof, and blinking the red lamp !
In my opinion, this is not very clever at all, as you want your water temp gauge showing the ***REAL*** temp of the engine, and not being an instrument used to scare you.

I just hope that this “false warning” is NOT recorded by the ECU as an engine overheat, as, I’m ready to bet that this would seriously downgrade the warranty of the engine in case of real problem.
I can only suppose that the ECU knows that such messages were warning for coolant low level and are not real temperature overheat.

I would be very interested to read more about this. Does any of you faced such problem ?

TTCarrera

Never.

And the notion that PCNA would deny a warranty because the coolant level warning code popped up and/or the ECU recorded a heat level is preposterous.

Obviously, if you ran it dry and the engine seized up, that's a different story and you own the blown engine.But you seem knowledgeable enough to carry around a couple of jugs of coolant until the issue is resolved.

Not sure what you mean about taking the CTT to Portland: "the ride comfort of the CTT is at miles of differences with the Panamera 4S ..both having air suspension !"

They both have air suspension, but the ride is way different?

Are you thinking that because they both have air suspension that they should ride the same?

GVA-SFO

No, I do not expect that both run with the same level of comfort. (The Panamera is a fabulous "flying carpet".)
But, before the CTT, we had a CS (Tit Ed. that had also air suspension) and did 110k miles with it.
I can tell you that our current CTT is way different that our previous CS. Much stiffer, this comparing both in "comfort" mode. I suspect that our CTT has a suspension problem ..and always run in sport mode.
But this is another story !
..and the reason why, I do hope that we can use the Panamera for our next ride, ..(and not our "stiff" CTT").
I hope this will clarify the above post, sorry to have not been accurate enough.

GVA-SFO

About the Panamera, I had a discussion with a guy last week, at the Quail, and he told me “I do not like the Panamera, it is an ugly 4 doors” !
Well, answer to that is, OK, may be you can dislike the rear, but to my eyes, the rest is real nice.
Anyway, the BEST place to enjoy a Panamera to the top, ..is *NOT* being at the back of it, and looking at the rear of the car, but simply from the driver seat.

And, btw, what other 4 doors car looks better ??
Hummm, to my eyes, the BM 7 looks like only one thing is missing : In french we call it "tourelle", I think the right translation is Turret, and this, on the top of the roof. ..Then, it would be a great tank design.
About an Audi : the front of an S8, is to my eyes, MUCH more uglier ..than the back of a Panamera !
The Mercedes, no-no. Simply, it is not a car that I would like to have. May be the S design is not that bad, or even good, but, still : it is simply not my brand. I'm already a Grandfa, but still, no Mercedes. May be one day, ..when I will be a Grand-GrandFa !

OK, the only one (4 doors) that I would consider, and that looks like VERY nice to my eyes, is ..the Aston Rapid !
But, I’m not sure it would be an “efficient” daily, ..like the Panamera is.
May be there is another thing with the Rapid design : you love it big time when it came out, and after two years, ..it looks like the design faded away.
Something that do not happen at all with the "P" design.
(To me, the real big miss in design, is the rear of the "new" Cayenne. This is a real good example of a real ugly rear, ..but not the Panamera !)

I can also mention a Tesla, with I consider as the nicest design of all existing 4 doors (in my opinion, it is a very important reason of the success of the "S", as, we should remember that ALL OTHER electrical cars are much-much-much more uglier, (i.e.: front, rear, side, top, bottom or whatever view of them), than the back of a Panamera !!!
But, my way of life is such that I cannot consider a car (even if I love it big time), ..that need so much time to refill it !
I can add, that I also do NOT like the inside, i.e.: the big dashboard, and the inside design and material usage.
It is like all these new cars that have a "washing machine button" to select and click to make an action. I consider that these ARE MORE DANGEROUS than "Driving and Texting" !
I just cannot understand that the legislators, in the countries that ban (with good reasons) "Driving and Texting", ..are NOT banning the cars that have car control with "washing machine" buttons.

GVA-SFO

By the way, talking to my “P” service adviser, the message was clear: do not drive it. So, this morning, ..Flatbed call #3 for my Panamera !



About this picture : there are a lot of things that Porsche does that I do not like, but, when the design of the rear of the Panamera may be not "perfect", for my eyes, it still looks much better than many other butts of other 4 doors !

pavster

I really enjoy your thread - you truly made me consider trading my 911 for a Panamera and getting a 'toy' car for weekend duty - a Boxster or even a souped-up Miata.

But I have to say I am not fond of the looks.... I mean it's a beautifully crafted car, but design-wise I would have to give it to Audi A7. The front looks like an R8 and the back looks like... well like Panamera should have looked. I agree the point is moot once you are inside the car.

GVA-SFO

For sure, I was thinking also about a Miata before I bought my Boxster. But, my track experience in Europe being with Lotus Elise and then Exige, I decided that only a central engine would fulfill what I was looking for.
Btw, driving an Elise or an Exige on track is a fabulous experience. (I went to many European tracks with these.)
It could be a "potential" candidate, but in my opinion, when driving it on freeways, i.e.: going to the tracks and back, ..I felt it would be a bit small for the US standard !

Another candidate could be a Radical, but, then, this becomes a 100% "track and trailer" !

Frankly, a Boxster S (I do not recommend a "base" one, as you would be missing too much power), is a fantastic car for "track & fun".
My opinion is that Bilstein (PSS9) is a "must", the car then stay flat. Also, to be with the needed "negative camber" on track, you also need GT3 lower control arms.
For your info, mine is a 2001, and has 63k miles (got it for 13k).
Then, remove as much weight as you can (i.e.: seats to buckets, battery to Li-Ion, etc..), a roll bar and good tires, so, all together this not the end of the World !! (costs) ..and you have a fabulous toy, that you can really enjoy to the max. (Did you see some info/photos that I posted about my Boxster under the 986, see “PIWIS reading, R1 and R2, then what ??”
(I set that tittle, as before buying it, I was concerned about the amount of “R1” that this car had, ..should say has, as to be honest, I did add some more !!)

I can tell you that I’m more happy with the Panamera and this old Boxster than I was with all the 911’s I had over the last 30 years !
For me the 911 is a perfect compromise car, but, a Panamera and a Boxster is “the best solution”. ..and you know what : Wife love the Panamera much more than the 911, so this was a 100% winning choice

Now for the Audi, ..big Oups : for my eyes, the front of the Audi is a lot more ugly, ..than the back of a Panamera !
For sure, this is so personal.
My "2cents" : drive them both before deciding, but, do NOT try a Panamera that has no "air suspension" and no "sport plus". Imo, these are "absolute must have". I would simply NOT consider any Panamera without these (and a V8) !!
...and being AWD (4).
Ah, I also forget to say that the Panamera must be CPO'ed, otherwise, ..you may have some bad financial surprises !