Good bye 911 (after 30 year non stop), hello Panamera !
07-26-2015 | 09:02 PM
#121
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Over a month, and : ..not a single comment, no messages, no answers !
I think I should shut and move on into different matters.
Sorry for the disturbance.
I think I should shut and move on into different matters.
Sorry for the disturbance.
Last edited by GVA-SFO; 07-26-2015 at 09:54 PM.
07-26-2015 | 10:13 PM
#122
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By the way, we use the Panamera a bit less since we got a CTT.
The CTT is significantly less comfy that the Panamera (we got it with kind of "mix" tires, i.e.: Continental) and I feel these are kind of "hard-wood-no-rubber" tires. I'm planning to change these soon in order to improve the comfyness. (I already bought a another set of wheels to get ready, i.e.: the same as the Panamera, as I want to be back on staggered mode with the CTT, even if this is not "factory recommended" ! I just hope that they will fit (on rears, ET68 = OK ??), will see.
I also get the feeling that air suspension of the CTT has a problem, as there is simply no way to feel any difference between Comfort, Normal and Sport !
In the Panamera, I can perceive a difference between the 3 modes, even if this is not a huge one.
Btw, with the CTT, the "Sport" button is not like the Suspension button : it is a big game changer. The CTT in Sport mode is really "brutal". I can really get the feeling of the 100 more ponies ready to move comparing to the Panamera.
But, in term of power and braking, whoa, ..the CTT is just totally amazing.
This make me thing to say that the "Lane Change Assist" (we have it on the CTT) is just "A PURE MUST".
I would recommend anyone configuring a P car now to get this one. A Real must have.
The CTT is significantly less comfy that the Panamera (we got it with kind of "mix" tires, i.e.: Continental) and I feel these are kind of "hard-wood-no-rubber" tires. I'm planning to change these soon in order to improve the comfyness. (I already bought a another set of wheels to get ready, i.e.: the same as the Panamera, as I want to be back on staggered mode with the CTT, even if this is not "factory recommended" ! I just hope that they will fit (on rears, ET68 = OK ??), will see.
I also get the feeling that air suspension of the CTT has a problem, as there is simply no way to feel any difference between Comfort, Normal and Sport !
In the Panamera, I can perceive a difference between the 3 modes, even if this is not a huge one.
Btw, with the CTT, the "Sport" button is not like the Suspension button : it is a big game changer. The CTT in Sport mode is really "brutal". I can really get the feeling of the 100 more ponies ready to move comparing to the Panamera.
But, in term of power and braking, whoa, ..the CTT is just totally amazing.
This make me thing to say that the "Lane Change Assist" (we have it on the CTT) is just "A PURE MUST".
I would recommend anyone configuring a P car now to get this one. A Real must have.
07-26-2015 | 11:25 PM
#123
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 249
Likes: 5
From: Pacific Northwest
..
This Panamera is my first PDK Porsche, (our Cayenne S is "Tiptronic") and frankly, I think this should be good (or, even more : perfect) for a track car, but for a road sport car, it left the driver with nothing serious to do ..beside going to the desired direction.
Even more, when you are on the roads, driving in a pure legal condition (so what we should all do all the time), in all cases, we can all see and get prepared well in advance when we will need Power. So, in these cases, with a stick, we can, **well in advance**, be ready for that, by downshifting, i.e.: selecting the desired gear, before this need of power, and then passing or whatever action, is done with the right human control.
I get the feeling that with PDK, the best you can do on such a case, is to blindly find & click the small (WAY TOO SMALL !!) "Sport Plus" button, ..and then, wait and hope that the desired gear will put be in place by the computer.
OK, you can also use your fingers, (left or right), and back “click”, (and count in head, how many clicks you need/want), to be in the desired gear. Note that if you do that too early, after few seconds, (if you are still in “auto” mode), you will be back on “granddad cruising mode”, except, if after (or maybe better : before) your “count down”, you should also “left sweep” the PDK lever ! (to stick to “manual”.
This Panamera is my first PDK Porsche, (our Cayenne S is "Tiptronic") and frankly, I think this should be good (or, even more : perfect) for a track car, but for a road sport car, it left the driver with nothing serious to do ..beside going to the desired direction.
Even more, when you are on the roads, driving in a pure legal condition (so what we should all do all the time), in all cases, we can all see and get prepared well in advance when we will need Power. So, in these cases, with a stick, we can, **well in advance**, be ready for that, by downshifting, i.e.: selecting the desired gear, before this need of power, and then passing or whatever action, is done with the right human control.
I get the feeling that with PDK, the best you can do on such a case, is to blindly find & click the small (WAY TOO SMALL !!) "Sport Plus" button, ..and then, wait and hope that the desired gear will put be in place by the computer.
OK, you can also use your fingers, (left or right), and back “click”, (and count in head, how many clicks you need/want), to be in the desired gear. Note that if you do that too early, after few seconds, (if you are still in “auto” mode), you will be back on “granddad cruising mode”, except, if after (or maybe better : before) your “count down”, you should also “left sweep” the PDK lever ! (to stick to “manual”.
Sounds like you believe there is more skill in knowing how how to push in the clutch, shift to a different gear and release the clutch without grinding than in knowing "when" to shift and maintain optimized RPMs.
If you can get by with just the "when" part, then it sounds like realizing that popping the shifter to the left into full manual and controlling shifts with the paddles should be able to do it for you.
However, if you're still in your thirties and continue to impress girls by your grinding-less shifting (as if it's like speaking 6 languages), then you probably do need a stick shift to fulfill that need. (just kidding, here
)Suggest you buy some of these and stick one on the Sport Plus button so you can feel it without looking down:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Self-A...item4ac729ff77
.
07-26-2015 | 11:34 PM
#124
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 249
Likes: 5
From: Pacific Northwest
May be a “PS” to try to explain a bit more my gut feeling :
PS : I should add : What ‘s up, if “tomorrow” Ferrari would announce that the twelve cylinders will no longer be produced, and the next 458 Italia will be equipped with a V4 ?
Try to think about that !!!
What I perceive : these F (errari) guys have *****, and they DO well their job.
OK, they (F) have to pay more CaFe taxes, but, then what ? They raised the price of the cars, so the E/U do pay good part of these ..but, at least, for now, their cars do (FULLY) remain REAL (Sport) cars.
I really think that the Porsche management have no *****, only green peas !
Or, they are completely Driving Under the Influence ..of the VolksWagen people.
Would love to read your opinion. I.e.: Do I’m the only one to think this way, (if yes, it is time for me to shut), or what ????
Hope to read from you here.
PS : I should add : What ‘s up, if “tomorrow” Ferrari would announce that the twelve cylinders will no longer be produced, and the next 458 Italia will be equipped with a V4 ?
Try to think about that !!!
What I perceive : these F (errari) guys have *****, and they DO well their job.
OK, they (F) have to pay more CaFe taxes, but, then what ? They raised the price of the cars, so the E/U do pay good part of these ..but, at least, for now, their cars do (FULLY) remain REAL (Sport) cars.
I really think that the Porsche management have no *****, only green peas !
Or, they are completely Driving Under the Influence ..of the VolksWagen people.
Would love to read your opinion. I.e.: Do I’m the only one to think this way, (if yes, it is time for me to shut), or what ????
Hope to read from you here.
See current Autocar mag: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...ne-details-new
Last edited by TTCarrera; 07-27-2015 at 12:20 AM.
07-27-2015 | 01:10 AM
#125
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Thanks (a lot) for your comment TTCarrera.
About PDK, do not get me wrong, I know the PDK computer is better than me in the efficiency to shift, but, for me changing gears is part of the pleasure to drive.
So if you remove this pleasure, it is for me, going straight in the direction of also remove to me the control of the steering wheel ..and getting a "Google car" where you just seat and ask a computer to move you at a given place.
Sure, I may will be happy to be able to do so of of this day, but I can insure you, ..that I will not buy a Porsche to let a computer drive it.
I hope you understand me.
Over more than 30 years, I never bought any of my Porsche to "impress" any human (nor any animal), I bought all my Porsche simply for the pleasure to drive them.
And by the way, when I bough my first Porsche, I was married and had my sons already.
Did you bought a Porsche to impress girls ????
(I do not know why, but I think this is really not the car for "that" !)
About PDK, do not get me wrong, I know the PDK computer is better than me in the efficiency to shift, but, for me changing gears is part of the pleasure to drive.
So if you remove this pleasure, it is for me, going straight in the direction of also remove to me the control of the steering wheel ..and getting a "Google car" where you just seat and ask a computer to move you at a given place.
Sure, I may will be happy to be able to do so of of this day, but I can insure you, ..that I will not buy a Porsche to let a computer drive it.
I hope you understand me.
Over more than 30 years, I never bought any of my Porsche to "impress" any human (nor any animal), I bought all my Porsche simply for the pleasure to drive them.
And by the way, when I bough my first Porsche, I was married and had my sons already.
Did you bought a Porsche to impress girls ????
(I do not know why, but I think this is really not the car for "that" !)
07-27-2015 | 01:19 AM
#126
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About downsizing displacement and getting turbos, imo, these are ways, (like pdk btw) to escape on goverments taxes.
I think, this method is good for Volkswagen, but, imo, this is a going to kill car co like Porsche.See for example, sine the best model of Panamera ( the S) has been down fitted with a V6 turbo the sales have been down to 15 percent.
So my question Does Porsche to prefer loosing sales significantly, ..to pay less taxes ???
In what ever way, I will NOT change my Panamera (4S, V8) against a V6 turbo.
Do Im the only one with such feeling ? I do not know, but this is very clear for me.
I think, this method is good for Volkswagen, but, imo, this is a going to kill car co like Porsche.See for example, sine the best model of Panamera ( the S) has been down fitted with a V6 turbo the sales have been down to 15 percent.
So my question Does Porsche to prefer loosing sales significantly, ..to pay less taxes ???
In what ever way, I will NOT change my Panamera (4S, V8) against a V6 turbo.
Do Im the only one with such feeling ? I do not know, but this is very clear for me.
07-27-2015 | 02:12 AM
#127
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 249
Likes: 5
From: Pacific Northwest
Thanks (a lot) for your comment TTCarrera.
About PDK, do not get me wrong, I know the PDK computer is better than me in the efficiency to shift, but, for me changing gears is part of the pleasure to drive.
So if you remove this pleasure, it is for me, going straight in the direction of also remove to me the control of the steering wheel ..and getting a "Google car" where you just seat and ask a computer to move you at a given place.
Sure, I may will be happy to be able to do so of of this day, but I can insure you, ..that I will not buy a Porsche to let a computer drive it.
I hope you understand me.
Over more than 30 years, I never bought any of my Porsche to "impress" any human (nor any animal), I bought all my Porsche simply for the pleasure to drive them.
And by the way, when I bough my first Porsche, I was married and had my sons already.
Did you bought a Porsche to impress girls ????
(I do not know why, but I think this is really not the car for "that" !)
About PDK, do not get me wrong, I know the PDK computer is better than me in the efficiency to shift, but, for me changing gears is part of the pleasure to drive.
So if you remove this pleasure, it is for me, going straight in the direction of also remove to me the control of the steering wheel ..and getting a "Google car" where you just seat and ask a computer to move you at a given place.
Sure, I may will be happy to be able to do so of of this day, but I can insure you, ..that I will not buy a Porsche to let a computer drive it.
I hope you understand me.
Over more than 30 years, I never bought any of my Porsche to "impress" any human (nor any animal), I bought all my Porsche simply for the pleasure to drive them.
And by the way, when I bough my first Porsche, I was married and had my sons already.
Did you bought a Porsche to impress girls ????
(I do not know why, but I think this is really not the car for "that" !)
I bought my first one in 1974. I currently have three: a 991S, a Macan Turbo and my 17th Porsche, a brand new Panamera GTS.
Yes, the first 3 or 4 did impress women...or at least it seemed that way (or maybe it was just my charm?). But mostly they've impressed me, which is what really mattered.
I have PDK in all 3 current cars. Each version is slightly different, tuned to the cars' optimized dynamics, I would assume.
When I'm having fun with them, I switch to Sport Plus in full manual and I am fully involved, even though there is no clutch pedal to push. I've been a long time PCA instructor, a Zone Champion and driving the right line, at the right RPMs is what does it for me. Mechanical operation of a pedal and a stick is "so last year", when instead, a glance at the tach and a flick of the wrist gets instant gratification of a well-timed shift and an apex exit that is high up on the power curve.
My only regret is the elimination of the individual round gauges in the dash, beginning with the 996, where you could no longer pop out the gauge and reinsert it sideways so that red-line was at the 12 o'clock position and in the bottom of your peripheral vision. I miss that more than the 6-speed MT, for sure.
07-27-2015 | 02:21 AM
#128
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 249
Likes: 5
From: Pacific Northwest
About downsizing displacement and getting turbos, imo, these are ways, (like pdk btw) to escape on goverments taxes.
I think, this method is good for Volkswagen, but, imo, this is a going to kill car co like Porsche.See for example, sine the best model of Panamera ( the S) has been down fitted with a V6 turbo the sales have been down to 15 percent.
So my question Does Porsche to prefer loosing sales significantly, ..to pay less taxes ???
I think, this method is good for Volkswagen, but, imo, this is a going to kill car co like Porsche.See for example, sine the best model of Panamera ( the S) has been down fitted with a V6 turbo the sales have been down to 15 percent.
So my question Does Porsche to prefer loosing sales significantly, ..to pay less taxes ???
Don't know. You're the first I've heard with this theory about avoiding taxes. It's pretty clear that impending emissions standards regulations are driving the need for smaller carbon output; hence smaller displacements and cleaner-burning engines.
But I could be wrong. Please link any articles you've seen on this making less money in order to pay less tax theory.
A 4.8 liter normally-aspirated V8 with 440 hp that just shakes the ground when it launches out of a turn.
I'm loving this car:
07-27-2015 | 02:51 AM
#129
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So, it looks like we are not that far away !
I also currently have 3 !
the p4s of this topic
a 2011 Cayenne turbo
..and my track car is a Boxster S, a bit modified (ie pss9 on each corners, ..) See the topic ...piwis, etc.. under 986)
Im used to say that it is Not as it should, i.e. my road car should be manual, and my track car should be pdk. Helas, it is the other around.
The tip on the Cayenne turbo is just fine. (I only miss (big time) the low gear when towing our 6'000 pounds boat (small but heavy, ..it is a Cobalt !) with the cayenne. Our previous Cayenne (V8 !!!) had it, but after more than 110k very happy miles, I felt it was good to change.)
I also currently have 3 !
the p4s of this topic
a 2011 Cayenne turbo
..and my track car is a Boxster S, a bit modified (ie pss9 on each corners, ..) See the topic ...piwis, etc.. under 986)
Im used to say that it is Not as it should, i.e. my road car should be manual, and my track car should be pdk. Helas, it is the other around.
The tip on the Cayenne turbo is just fine. (I only miss (big time) the low gear when towing our 6'000 pounds boat (small but heavy, ..it is a Cobalt !) with the cayenne. Our previous Cayenne (V8 !!!) had it, but after more than 110k very happy miles, I felt it was good to change.)
07-27-2015 | 05:23 PM
#131
Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 586
Likes: 2
From: Boston
I enjoy my PGTS at least as much as my 991 TTS. Truly a four door sports car, which most people dismiss as marketing hype, but do a hot lap with a pro at a Porsche event or at Barber MSP in a PTTS on your own and there is no doubt. Even better is the prospect that Porsche is developing another NA engine for the next PGTS. The PGTS may not have the thrust of the Panamera Turbo or TS, but its handling and sound are addictive. FWIW, the instructors at the Porsche Sport Driving School favor the PGTS over the PTT/TTS. It is also a surprisingly comfortable highway cruising vehicle because it tracks so much better than the other big sedans (A8, S Class, 7 Series) and even with sport exhaust on is remarkably quiet, even without dual pane glass, which my CPO'd '13 does not have, but my former A8 did.
07-28-2015 | 03:47 PM
#133
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After more than 20'000 Miles of pan 4S, I do NOT regreat any of my 911 that I had non stop as daily for 30 year. I love my 4S ..and just hope that one of these days, I will upgrade it into a GTS.
It is true that I had to buy an old Boxster S to fill the real toy mode, i.e. Track Days, etc..
Btw, driving a Boxster on track is so nice, ..compared to a 911.
Driving fast a 911 is very difficult (for me!!) The weight strcture is such that you have to brake on the EXACT braking point before entering into any curves of a track, as you must trigger you turn when braking pressure is still optimal, ..and having lots of weight on the front. If you brake to early, and have to release brakepressure before triggering the curve, ..the weight is gone, ..back to the rear, where it is based, and your turn is weak.
Frankly, with a car that has it weight based on center, thngs are more easier, ..and you have more pleasure driving fast !!
It is true that I had to buy an old Boxster S to fill the real toy mode, i.e. Track Days, etc..
Btw, driving a Boxster on track is so nice, ..compared to a 911.
Driving fast a 911 is very difficult (for me!!) The weight strcture is such that you have to brake on the EXACT braking point before entering into any curves of a track, as you must trigger you turn when braking pressure is still optimal, ..and having lots of weight on the front. If you brake to early, and have to release brakepressure before triggering the curve, ..the weight is gone, ..back to the rear, where it is based, and your turn is weak.
Frankly, with a car that has it weight based on center, thngs are more easier, ..and you have more pleasure driving fast !!
07-28-2015 | 04:22 PM
#134
Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 586
Likes: 2
From: Boston
Boxter S
After more than 20'000 Miles of pan 4S, I do NOT regreat any of my 911 that I had non stop as daily for 30 year. I love my 4S ..and just hope that one of these days, I will upgrade it into a GTS.
It is true that I had to buy an old Boxster S to fill the real toy mode, i.e. Track Days, etc..
Btw, driving a Boxster on track is so nice, ..compared to a 911.
Driving fast a 911 is very difficult (for me!!) The weight strcture is such that you have to brake on the EXACT braking point before entering into any curves of a track, as you must trigger you turn when braking pressure is still optimal, ..and having lots of weight on the front. If you brake to early, and have to release brakepressure before triggering the curve, ..the weight is gone, ..back to the rear, where it is based, and your turn is weak.
Frankly, with a car that has it weight based on center, thngs are more easier, ..and you have more pleasure driving fast !!
It is true that I had to buy an old Boxster S to fill the real toy mode, i.e. Track Days, etc..
Btw, driving a Boxster on track is so nice, ..compared to a 911.
Driving fast a 911 is very difficult (for me!!) The weight strcture is such that you have to brake on the EXACT braking point before entering into any curves of a track, as you must trigger you turn when braking pressure is still optimal, ..and having lots of weight on the front. If you brake to early, and have to release brakepressure before triggering the curve, ..the weight is gone, ..back to the rear, where it is based, and your turn is weak.
Frankly, with a car that has it weight based on center, thngs are more easier, ..and you have more pleasure driving fast !!
07-28-2015 | 04:53 PM
#135
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Yes, so true.
If you are able to brake at the exact braking point, at every curves, then, things are different !
But frankly, I have seen this quite rarely. The last person I have seen doing that so well, is Sabine Schmitz, a super talented driver. This was at Spa Francorchamps, in Belgium, and was on track too when she was fighting against two Radical with a GT3 Cup. This was quite impressive, but over all the 911 drvers, I should say, ..it is very rare !
If you are able to brake at the exact braking point, at every curves, then, things are different !
But frankly, I have seen this quite rarely. The last person I have seen doing that so well, is Sabine Schmitz, a super talented driver. This was at Spa Francorchamps, in Belgium, and was on track too when she was fighting against two Radical with a GT3 Cup. This was quite impressive, but over all the 911 drvers, I should say, ..it is very rare !
Last edited by GVA-SFO; 08-01-2015 at 06:20 AM. Reason: Sorry for the typo on your last name Sabine