Carrera GT

I'd skip the red gauges, they'll look out of place. I'd get ventilated seats (they work incredibly well!) I'd skip the four zone a/c. I'd definitely get PDCC and PSE. You have to get Sport Chrono for the "Sport Plus" mode (a scam) and launch control (though I've never used it ... I don't see the point once your tried it in a factory demo car, no need to ask your own car to work that hard from a standstill.) I'd get the power sunscreen for the rear window since I would mostly have two kids back there and not want them in direct sunlight. And the luggage compartment cover would be a useful precaution when leaving the car with anything otherwise visible in the hatch area.

Otherwise, I think getting the Turbo with PCCBs and a hefty discount is probably the right way to go with this car, you're either in the market for a $160K Porsche four door, or you're not, so no use getting too bogged down in the cost of the thing. I'd get it on a lease with a big residual and I'd accept the fact that these early Panameras will be like early Cayennes (in terms of quality control, bugs and resale value.)

For price, I'd start at a $15K discount on a Turbo and see how it unfolds. Maybe, just maybe, the initial buyers will outstrip supply. I doubt it. I drove the 4S through the mountains at the Quail event and it's a lot of fun, but it's still the same odd-shaped thing with awkward proportions. Talking with others there for the demo drive event, not one was "sold" on the car. Each to his own and you clearly want the car, but don't let your personal enthusiasm skew your expectations of demand. I'd encourage you to take the opportunity to push very hard on price, especially since you're starting with a $160K Turbo. So somewhere between 7% and 10% should be do-able. A non-refundable deposit must be a TX law, in CA, deposits are always refundable.

My only disappointment with the Panamera Turbo is that it's at 500hp when the Cayenne Turbo S is already at 550hp. Of course Porsche is making it clear that there will soon be a Panamera Turbo S, so some will wait for the extra horses and anyone buying the "first kid on the block" status Turbo should realize their resale value will be subject to the market reaction to the Turbo S. I guess anyone buying a Panamera should have already made peace with their likely resale value prospects.

W8MM

My contact is Claudia Boensch who is the Panamera product manager for PCNA. If she can't find out, then I don't know who else can.

I'll post what I know as soon as I find out.

rdk

My dealer spoke with Bill Buckley who is the director of training for PCNA . Bill told him he has not been made aware of any potentail issues with the thermal insulation and has been driving a Panamera with this option using his windshield mounted radar detector, cell phone and toll tag wihout any issues.

W8MM

Well, now I guess we've heard just about everything.

I wonder why PAG engineering thinks that Option 865 blocks radar signals?

rombrigs

Thanks for all the insights!

I finally get to see the car tomorrow night.

-Roger

Carrera GT

Dealers are doing an intro event in TX?

ziiz996

Check this link if you want to see the beautiful PANAMERA: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...have-been.html

DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY..

rombrigs

Finally saw a Panamera S last night.

Initial observations:

1. Car is as ugly in person as is it in the pictures.
2. After 3 scotches, the looks did not improve; however, a lowball glass fits very nicely in the middle front cupholder.
3. The driver cockpit is the best part about the car, Carrera GT'ish with lots of buttons, if you're in to that sort of thing, which I am.
4. Sport seats are a must have option just like the Carrera. Too narrow at the shoulders, but they provide a good view forward from the rear seats.
5. To many ash trays, it's retarded, they need a delete option.
6. If you can't spring for the turbo, I'm not sure I could buy one. The only thing it's really got going for it is the performance (allegedly, I haven't drive it yet) to make up for the station wagon looks. The non-turbo's are to close performance wise to much better looking sedans.
7. I will be leasing to hedge against the potential massive depreciation if the cars do poorly or VW does something stupid.

That's about all I can think of right now.

-Roger

Carrera GT

1. Ugly, well, I'd say "ungainly."
2. 3 Scotches is all it took to get your "beer goggles" on? Lightweight.
3. I don't see the Carrera GT resemblance.
4. Ventilated seats seem like the "must have" option. They work well.
5. One ash tray is one too many. I found cabin storage to be a real problem.
6. Turbo is overpriced and visually too similar; not justified by the meagre HP.
7. Lease: absolutely.

I agree the Panamera has very stiff competition in a rather dull segment. I wonder what Porsche does to train and equip their sales staff for competitive selling.

Still going ahead with an order? Any mention of discounting yet?

rombrigs

1. The car was surprisingly massive. I thought I might get rid of the Cayenne and Carrera. Looks like I'll be keeping the Carrera or getting a different sports car.
2. Usually 3 scotches would start having an effect. Not this time, continued to look like a double bagger.
3. The high and upward sloping center console.
4. I've never had ventilated seats, so I won't miss them.
5. If you get a non-turbo and start throwing all the goodies on (full leather, etc.) the price gets jacked up very quick. The turbo is almost a full second quicker.
6. The Panamera makes a Cayenne Turbo a bargain in comparison.
7. Still going ahead with the order, my wife loved it. No discussion on price yet.
8. Can't decided on PDCC.

Carrera GT

1. Replace the Carrera? Let's not be too rash!
2. Double Bagger. Laugh.
3. The console. Well, sure, there's some geometric similarities, but hell, the Carrera GT console is unique, distinctive, functional ... inspired! The Panamera console is a 90's Nokia cell phone.
4. The seats are great, definitely worth the check box tariff.
5. I agree that the Porsche folks have tilted the game to make a nicely optioned S (of any of their cars) cost enough to "justify" the Turbo. I think they need to rethink their pricing model and see what happens if people could treat the order guide seriously instead of being insulted by $500 sun visors.
6. Agreed. By the power of unintended consequences, the Panamera is showing another characteristic of being a new model. If Porsche sees a tweak in Cayenne sales, they'll be climbing the walls of a padded cell by Tuesday ... : )
7. Interesting that you're not the first to voice the aspect of the car appealing to their wife.
8. PDCC would be a "must have" for me because I live at the end of 15 miles of winding mountain roads and I'd want to take the Panamera to the track.

I think you should find it relatively easy to get a pretty substantial discount off a Turbo. Good luck, and delete the red gauges idea! : )

W8MM

OK, I have some real data to report.

One of my dealer's launch Panameras had the option 865 thermal and sound insulating glass package on it. They let me drive it around quite a bit one afternoon.

Option 865 DEFINITELY BLOCKS RADAR through at least the windshield. The V1 never lit its front arrow while mounted to the windshield and only weak signals were detected from the rear-facing antenna.

While the windshield from this package clobbers radar detector performance, there didn't seem to be any game-ending attenuation of cell phone signals.

Claudia Boensch said that the engineers in Germany told her that the Cayenne and Panamera thermal glass packages are made in an identical manner. I'd hoped for more specific technical details, but she didn't have them.

rdk

Thanks for some real world feedback! It sounds like I should be fine as long as I go with a remote mount radar/laser set up. My car is due in the first week of November so I will also post feedback. It is interesting Claudia says the process is the same as the Cayenne since the there is no disclaimer for the Panamera on the configurator like there is for the Cayenne. This is also not consistent with what my dealer was told. Who knows at this point?

dark knight

the layer of metal makes the detector useless, the cell transmits and receives through the side glass and the laser cruise will set off someone elses laser detector, imagine if they had a rear facing sensor...BRAKE TEST, other than that, I cant wait to see one in person, but I do believe that the "S" version should be 480 HP and the turbo 600Hp to justify the price, in time the looks will get better, look at the Cayenne update

W8MM

Not true.

Panamera's Adaptive Cruise Control option uses 76-77 GHz radar that has no effect on detectors.