I'm considering either a new GTS or an e-hybrid. My daily commute is about 3 km. The hybrid is a lot more expensive and I am concerned about the fact that many days the gas engine won't be called on and the complexity (and longevity, service needs etc) of the hybrid might be an issue. Any thoughts?

 

GTS, because I own one and I am biased.

 

I have not driven the new Panameras but my spouse has a RAV4 Prime which has the plugin hybrid system and I love it. It save so much gas it's ridiculous. Personally I would not own a Porsche hybrid unless it had a good warranty. The GTS will probably be more fun but the hybrid will allow you to drive silently and more eco-friendly.

 

if you going to tune it, get the ehybird, if you not touching it, get the GTS. The service is like a prius, change oil every 5k and you are set. I have 60k right now and did simple maintenance on it.

 

I'm not sure turning on an ICE for 3km is actually "good" for the engine...seems like it would barely get warmed up.

I love the hybrid for one reason - It's the most schizophrenic car I have ever driven, and that's exactly what suits me. When I want to smoothly cruise around town, it is the lap of luxury and quiet (I got the dual pane glass as well). I tried a 4S and GTS and the "always on tap" power makes me feel like I should always be going fast, a situation I experienced over many years of 911 driving. In the 4E, when I am just going from light to light, I don't feel the constant urge to pass people and let her fly. Then when I do feel the need for speed, a simple roll of the **** turns it into a beast.

As far as the engine never turning on, I go a couple weeks at a time (at the most) between longer trips and I think that is just fine. Less wear on the motor, less wear on brakes, etc. Use the ICE once a week or so for a longer (20 min) drive and you will be fine.

 

This strikes a chord with me; thanks.

 

Well, depending on how many miles you drive per year, you could be doing more harm to the environment than good. I have not seen any data for hybrids, but coming off the assembly line, electric cars do more damage to the environment than gas cars. How much more is a function of the size of the car. The bigger the car, the more damage, and the longer it takes to break even on emissions. The other issue is how clean your electricity is. On the west coast with its hydroelectric and atomic power, you might get 80% clean electricity. In WV, you would get zero. The average for the country is 60% fossil and 40% clean. It would make no sense to own one in WV, where electricity is produced from coal. You would never break even on emissions. In much of the country it would be a dubious choice, but could be justified if you drive a lot of miles, say, 15,000 miles+ (that is a WAG, wild-*** guess). It would make the most sense on the west coast, but even there it depends on how many miles you drive. 15,000 per year, probably makes sense. 5,000 miles, probably not. Now if you like the hybrid version better than the gas version, different conversation.

 

Gas and not because I'm against hybrids or EVs. The number of hybrid Panamera owners I know that have faced battery issues is more than enough for me to steer clear away from them. There are of course those who have not had a single issue with theirs no matter which generation. Now, knowing Porsche, they made significant improvements with the new generation but for me, it's going to take a whole lot of convincing for me to own an e-hybrid Panamera.

 

lot of FUD and misinformation here - not going to rehash this - since it's the same discuss for Cayenne eHybrids - ownership satisfaction for Cayenne hybrid is very high -and there are counter arguments on the Cayenne forum that debunk most/all of the negative comments I see in this thread - haters are gonna hate…

I'd suggest you'll be quite happy with a Hybrid Panamera if my experience with my 2021 Cayenne TurboS eHybrid is any indication…you can catch up on the cayenne Hybrid discussions if you want some counter points.

if you want to continue to live in your echo chamber and FUD more power to you.

 

I have owned 2 971 4EHST, 2018 and now 2023. No problems with either. As Orca says, they are chameleon cars. Around town calm and ecological, on a backroad as Porsche as you want. Having solar, I am free of any guilt on where my power comes from.

there is lots of angst here about e hybrids but at least for 971 not many horror stories. They are very rewarding cars,
. The 2020s are good to buy now CPO.

 

I would suggest gas because the hybrids weigh almost 1,000 lbs more, and that excess weight cannibalizes part of the purpose/benefits of getting one of the best handling sport sedans in the world.

 

according to edumnds

2023 4S is 4,336 lbs curb weight -
2023 4S hybrid is 5,006 lbs curb weight

so not 1000 lbs - but still heavier - 670 lbs or 15% heavier than the non-hybrid - but the hybrid is more than 1/2 second faster 0-60 and has 115 more HP (4 vs. 4 hybrid) or 33% more HP

so yeah - stick with that story I'm sure the Hybrid sucks on handling.

yeah the TurboS Panamera's handling really sucked while it was setting a sedan lap record on the ring…
https://www.motor1.com/news/727258/porsche-panamera-turbo-s-e-hybrid-nurburgring-video/

Quote:

The Panamera reaches 173 mph heading intoSchwedenkreuz, the infamous fast left-hander approximately two miles into the lap. We've seen many cars get skittish through here, but the Porsche remains remarkably composed.

and here

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2...ife-36823.html

 

No need to get defensive here - we are all fans of these cars and nowhere did I say that the "hybrid handling sucks" lol. Let's look at some basic facts:

- 670 extra lbs is a substantial amount of weight difference for a sports car with impacts especially on braking and lateral dynamics.

- no data on the 2025s, but previous gen Panamera 4 ST tested 101 ft 60-0 braking versus 109 ft for the 4 ST hybrid, and gas version pulled a little more lateral g's on the skidpad. Also hybrid braking progressively worse after the first stop due to the regenerative braking compromises.

- The 2025 Turbo S e-hybrid brings some massive changes and improvements over the previous generation - +80hp, +95 ft lbs of torque, the incredible new Active Ride Control suspension, advanced active aero, and newly developed Pilot Cup 2 tires. I'm surprised it's not a bigger gain on the 'Ring with all those changes. Imagine how fast an improved nonhybrid Turbo S could be at 700 lbs less with all those improvements and true carbon ceramics without the regenerative braking drawbacks.

 

Aside from preferences I think it comes down to these differences:

1. Weight: yes the hybrid weighs more but also has more power to compensate. Does it matter? Dunno, I've never tried a hybrid Panamera but the only time I feel the weight of my GTS is when I'm at autocross. On the road/highway the weight hasn't bothered me since switching from a BRZ thats 2,000 pounds less.
2. Efficiency: hybrid obviously wins here. I get avg 10-12MPG with my GTS in city driving lol.
3. Battery replacement: if you plan to keep the car for a long time, then you will eventually need to replace that massive battery for the hybrid system. It aint cheap.

 

don't assume the battery "needs" to be replaced - they have an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty - and unless hte battery fails all that happens to LiON batteries is that they lose total capacity (less range) but assumption they need to replaced is not always true - also cost is in line with any major drive train component with Porsche pricing and 8+ years or 100k+ miles - turbos, transmissions, ICE motor, suspension parts - everything on a Porsche that might fail after 100k+ is expensive.