I have the same annoying vibration. Yes, I've had the dealer change both the transmission and motor mounts. It definitely helped reduce/eliminate it at first. But a couple months later, seems like the vibration is either back...or possibly was never really gone, just much better.

 

I finally mounted the new 4S. Shop also checked all rims wo tire to verify all rims are round and no vibration from bare rims.
First impression. Drastically reduced and virtually eliminated vibration at 57-63 with similar tire pressure. however, I have increased vibration at 83 vs previous tires.

update: drove this morning same route as to work, vibration from 57-63 is very faint, not noticeable unless feeling for it. I increased tire pressure at front to 52psi, drove loop, no change, then decreased front to 40 and increased rear to 52psi. No change at the 57-63mph.

Decreased pressure to 40 all around hot and drove on a longer loop and where I can find smooth asphalt vs concrete. No vibration. 57-63.
At speed around 82-83 mph the vibration is greater than with previous tires but now felt more through steering wheel vs whole car unlike before. Below 77 nothing and above 95 nothing. Short sprint to 106. Very smooth again.

so, if harmonic vibration and probably mechanical, it makes sense that a tire with different weight and sidewall stiffness would change the speed when the harmonics would occur. Although, since I changed pressure, sidewall stiffness have less impact vs weight and type of tire.

In conclusion, for those who have vibration, try the Michelin 4S tire for summer, use a winter tire in winter season vs all season tires.

If it is mechanical, back to engine carrier, ie the bearing where left axle goes through the bottom of engine or front or center diff.
maybe I can get dealer to run car at speed on lift without the tires mounted……….


here is a thread on engine carrier. https://rennlist.com/forums/panamera...t-removal.html

 

Check out the Tech Note, "Panamera Vibration" in the December 2023 issue of Excellence Magazine...

 

My buddy used to have an Audi Allroad, it was much taller riding than the Panamera and it had vibration.
the Panamera does not have any bad angles on the shafts since normal ride heights. Although, shaft from transfer case to front diff is on an angle.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-...ation-3006399/

2nd point regarding attachment point or mounts and bearings.
I believe Porsche Panamera 4 wheel drive is the only car in VW line up with a carrier unit which is required to lower engine to get lowest CG.
https://rennlist.com/forums/panamera...t-removal.html

 

Our 2019 Pana is 2WD, so is smooth, as the CV joints are truly CV coming out of the differential (constant rotation speed). Not sure how many driveline sections are used to get from the PDK to the rear differential, and what the driveline angles are.

I know the 957 cayenne rear differential is connected to the transmission through a 2 piece shaft, with a center support bearing located at the far end of the intermediate shaft. The 957 uses a big rubber flex disk coupling off the rear of the transmission to the center section, where the support bearing and then 1st CV joint is encountered, connecting to the rear drive line shaft, which on the 957, uses another CV joint to connect to the pinion shaft's companion flange on the rear differential. So 1 driveline rubber isolator and two CV joints.

Was reading through a discussion on problematic 2 piece shafting.

2-Piece Driveshaft, Phasing and Angles - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

There is so much cladding underneath the Panamera and our 997 that I only know the 997 and our 2023 Cayenne fairly well underneath; the Cayenne's driveline arrangement is fairly easy to see.

For the rear drive line connection, I don't know if conventional cross type-yoke joints are used, or CV type joints, or even if the 2 piece shaft to the rear diff are separable. I did have to rebuild my center support rubber bushing at the mid point between the two sections on the 957 Cayenne, but never had to worry about the u joint mechanics or inner race of the support bearing specifically.

Here is some interesting reading though, and I wonder if some Panameras have out of phased center driveshaft sections to the rear, possibly a mistake during assembly. I'm assuming that the PDK actually has a built in differential underslung the front of it for the AWD models, and that there is no intermediate shaft going forward, only the conventional driveshaft with cross-yokes for coupling to the rear differential (or CV type joints).

Then there are the all important shaft balancing weights.

Universal Joint Phasing | Belden Universal Joints

 

I completed the buyback of my Panamera GTS with my dealer. I feel lucky to be out of the car even though I absolutely loved it (without the vibration) for the short period of time I owned it. I just purchased an RS6 Avant instead. The car is utterly smooth in every way you could possibly imagine - even with 22" rubber band tires. An absolutely terrific vehicle. While I do think the Panamera clearly is the better driver's car, I did not want to take a risk on another one.

 

Bump

 

I have this vibration issue on my 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid with 34k miles. It is worst between approximately 57-65mph and also slightly noticeable around 28mph. The issue seems to be much less noticeable when not going in a perfectly straight line, such as taking a gentle curve on the freeway.

I asked the dealer to diagnose and they had a tech drive the car and confirm the shaking. They suggested a "Performance Wheel Balance" out of pocket which I agreed to pay for. They diagnosed two bent front wheels and quoted $5k for replacement. I took the car to a highly reputed local wheel shop which straightened the wheels and told me that one was bent enough they thought I would be able to feel vibrations from it and the other was bent only very slightly, but they fixed both. I took the car on a spirited 200+ mile drive later that day and was under the impression that the problem was either eliminated or greatly improved.

Unfortunately, commuting to work on my normal freeway route the next week I realized that the problem is still very much present. I used an app to generate an FFT heat map of the vibration spectrum of the car with the phone resting flat on the center armrest while driving approximately 60mph. The results (see attached) clearly show significant vibration around 12 Hz. Doing some quick math, the 21" wheels and Cinturato P7 tires rotate about 11.7 times per second at 60mph. So this is definitely a first order vibration that corresponds quite precisely with wheel speed, meaning that we should be looking for components that rotate at exactly the same speed as the tires. I also did the same measurement on a perfectly smooth Macan dealer loaner and noted no similar results, so the findings on the FFT are clearly related to the perceived vibration.

The car is currently in the dealership for several unrelated issues. When it gets back I will go back to the wheel shop to have all four wheels checked for trueness again. I am quite certain at this point, however, that something else is going on. I will ask the dealer to swap wheels from a loaner onto my car to verify that the problem still occurs regardless of the wheels installed. Unfortunately, this thread is not giving me much hope as it seems that nobody whose issue was not wheel related has reached any sort of resolution.

I did purchase a copy of the December 2023 issue of Excellence Magazine to read the Tech Note about Panamera vibration which was entirely unhelpful. The response did not have any reference to a cause specific to Panamera and only suggested that shimming unspecified driveline components could possibly be a solution.

I have not heard any discussion of whether Rear Wheel Steering is an option that is a common thread among owners suffering this problem. My car does have it and I will try to see if Snow Chain Mode makes any difference when the car returns, although I don't know if it will deactivate before 57mph.

I do very much wonder if there are owners and dealers out there who have successfully resolved this issue and we're not hearing from them because, given that their problem was fixed, they don't need to resort to forums in search of a solution...

 

Does it shake more in the steering wheel or the seat under your butt? Its possible they didnt fix or balance the wheels enough. I used to drive a mustang with 15" drag radials that were a beast to balance, and I could only take them once place where they would "zero" them out. Everywhere else just got them close enough and they shook my car. If the dealer agrees, swapping a known good set will tell you for sure if it is your wheels.

 

After the wheel straightening there is no perceptible shake in the steering wheel at all, only through the rest of the car. Once I have the car back from the dealer I will have all four wheels rechecked by the wheel shop followed by requesting the dealer tries a different set of wheels.

 

Great write up! Sorry that you too are experiencing this frustrating problem.

I also recorded/measured the vibrations using the NVH app over a year ago and came the the same conclusion of a first order vibration. I have been through multiple sets of rims and tires, both 20" & 21", summer, winter, and all season tires. (all brand new tires & rims). Wheels are NOT the problem. I have Rear Wheel Steering and have tested Snow Chain mode. No difference. Curved roads, or imperfect surfaces mask the vibration.

The thing that I can't get my head around is why the vibration is extreme on some days and hardly noticeable on others--driving the same road at the same speed regardless of weather conditions. A bent/out of balance wheel, bad axel or bearing, drive shaft etc. would not excessively vibrate one day and then not at all another.

I'm curious--when did you first start feeling the vibration?

 

@Mootz , thank you for all your detailed posts on this mysterious issue. My symptoms match the issues described here so perfectly that I trust it is not related to the wheels. The wheel shop that corrected mine is very well respected and I have no reason to doubt the quality of their work.

I bought the car and drove it cross-country back home in January. We did almost 3000 miles in 3 days, much of it at substantially higher speed than 57-65mph where the problem is worst. I remember noticing a very strong vibration when some snow got in the wheels during that trip. We cleaned it out and didn’t think about it again.

I can’t say for certain when I first noticed the vibration, but it was not long into the ownership. I had the wheels rebalanced quite soon after getting it home due to the vibrations. I suspect it was already there and I just didn’t notice it on the test drive and drive home due to it being a new-to-me car and not being in the necessary speed zone. I will note that one other member said his started after snow got lodged in the wheel, but I really can’t say with any confidence if that is the case for me. Where I live the freeway traffic often runs in the culprit range so I experience the problem daily which is very frustrating.

Something that I should make clear: My car is a 4 E-Hybrid and the problem behaves identically regardless of whether the electric motor is driving the car or if the ICE engine is running. Doesn’t matter if it’s in E-Drive or if the car is sailing (ICE off and drivetrain decoupled), the shaking is all the same.

I do have some variability in the symptoms as well and I also have not been able to ascribe a particular pattern to it. However, I have not tried very hard so there may be something I’m missing. Some of the best behavior came when I did a very spirited 200 mile drive after the wheel straightening. Some of that may have been masking by curvy roads, but I would entertain the possibility that some component(s) being warmer or colder, perhaps from operation rather than ambient temperature, could play a significant role.

Given that this problem does seem to be age and mileage related and that owners describe it as varying in severity, that could indicate that some kind of elastomeric component is degrading. Under certain temperature conditions an elastomeric component could plausibly perform better or worse.

I am deeply intrigued by @BGB Motorsports report that his car still suffers the vibration on a lift with no road contact, and indeed with the front torque delivery turned off. It is stranger still that our cars experience this first order problem at the harmonics of about 6Hz (30MPH) and 12Hz (60MPH). If it really was a wheel out of true or a bent rotating component, the vibration should scale linearly with wheel rotation speed in the 1st order as observed, but be present at any significant speed, not just at particular speeds which happen to be harmonics of each other.

Since 6Hz and 12Hz are harmonics of each other and both correspond to the wheel vibrations, perhaps there is a multifactorial problem here where some component is generating first order vibration or imbalance and then there is a 6Hz resonance in the chassis or suspension and that and its 12Hz harmonic become noticeably excited. I have half a mind to figure out how to shake the entire car at 6Hz or 12Hz on a lift without the wheels turning and watch for any suspension or driveline components that become excited…

 

Thank you Sonics. Great investigation.
I have come to same conclusion as you and Mootz, don’t think it is wheel generated as I have swapped wheels, tires and wheel size/ tire (20”) from another car at dealer. Same vibration.

I was under the impression 4E didn’t have front diff and same axle configuration as ICE cars as front drive is electric motor driven. Can you verify where the electric motor is. Maybe it is on right side where the diff is on ICE cars. If it is, 4E cars may have same long left axle shaft as the ICE cars.
I tried different chassis modes, ie Sport and Sport +, and vibration still there so probably not engine mounts, but also an option
I suspect a bearing or axle joint in front somewhere is not perfect and inboard of front wheels and hub assembly and this is why the vibration is in the whole car and not in steering wheel.
why BGB had vibration while on lift.

 

@Norge911 , my understanding is that the electric motor is in-between the ICE engine and the PDK transmission. Because of this, the PDK actually shifts through the gears when the car is running on only electrical power. All four wheels are driven when on electrical power. Therefore I believe that everything downstream of the PDK in the drivetrain is the same as a normal Panamera 4.

I think your idea of a bearing or axel joint is very likely given all of the information available to us. It must be downstream of the PDK since in my car it is present even when "sailing" the ICE off and disconnected from the drivetrain completely. The question now is how to identify the exact culpable part. Our phone accelerometers are so good at identifying the vibration in the car itself, I have been thinking if I could fasten a number of plastic tape accelerometers on front suspension and drivetrain components that it might be possible to identify the responsible part by logging the information while driving. I have not yet found a suitable kit for this purpose, however.

 

Check out the play in the front passenger side axle in this video. Does this seem normal to anybody?