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Old Oct 12, 2013 | 02:19 PM
  #1816  
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They seem to be really cranking them out in this video at the factory. The workers seem so exited.

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Old Oct 12, 2013 | 05:54 PM
  #1817  
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Originally Posted by Carrera GT
Pfadt? I think that's a brand name using onomatopoeia inspired by the exhaust note, or the reaction of a teenager with a low grade meth addiction, attempting to express approval of expensive domestic cars.

In any case, the cabin is going to be a tight squeeze, but the good news is, you probably don't need to worry about it.

The early build quality is appalling:
* Paint flaws beyond comprehension
* Assembly mistakes (no fluid in the diff)
* Design flaws (rear hatch doesn't close, etc.)
* Fit and finish issues (panel gaps, hand repairs to meet QA after production)
* Gremlins (dash malfunctions, poor quality electronics, AC fail, etc.)
* Mechanical issues (suspension noise, vague handling)

That's just some of the most notable issues. from a laundry list in the first two weeks of the car being in customer hands, after a month or two of initial production delays due to quality problems.

Here's a recent thread of a car that was lemon'd and the customer refunded.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-g...ill-gm-do.html
Yeah, I really did not think they made cars this shoddy anymore. I've been to Caddy dealerships (When closed of course) and was pretty impressed with everything and was hoping for a similar impression with the Corvette.

Much less in a hurry now and as I said I will go and have a look when 3 deep at the dealerships and really take time to take it in with the right specs and right colors while I tell the salestard to f@ck off because I know if they open their mouth I will have to leave disgusted again.

If they don't fix the C7 maybe I can learn to like PDK-S for the occasional track day or if not possible get a 997GT3 or see how the M4 does, buying a racecar for max fun DE and an occasional race anyway.
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Old Oct 13, 2013 | 05:35 AM
  #1818  
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Why no uniform for the workers??? Singlets, track suits and flowery tops don't make for a good impression and feeling of being part of a team, this obviously flows onto the quality... GM management need a kick up the butt.
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Old Oct 13, 2013 | 10:36 AM
  #1819  
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Originally Posted by Ur20v
Why no uniform for the workers??? Singlets, track suits and flowery tops don't make for a good impression and feeling of being part of a team, this obviously flows onto the quality... GM management need a kick up the butt.
Ever read a union contract? It may well be that UAW does not allow company mandated uniforms aside from required PPE.
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Old Oct 13, 2013 | 12:09 PM
  #1820  
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Originally Posted by Ur20v
Why no uniform for the workers??? Singlets, track suits and flowery tops don't make for a good impression and feeling of being part of a team, this obviously flows onto the quality... GM management need a kick up the butt.
That's a good question. As someone who has dealt with manufacturing I can say that what you are advocating does not directly affect quality. Ideally you design your production process to be so robust that you don't rely on a vigilant eye to get the job done right. Both the Germans and the Americans learned that from the Japanese (who ironically learned it from an American). Basically the things you mentioned are window dressing.

However, window dressing can matter. Though uniforms don't make a team and any company would be damned foolish to think otherwise, the team mindset is important. If uniforms help, good.

It's also a mater of PR. Look at the videos of the Tesla plant. They are carefully setup to make it appear as if Tesla is somehow more advanced than any of her competitors. Hardly. Most of their true manufacturing talent came out of the layoff in Detroit. They really know nothing that Detroit doesn't already know. However, we aren't talking about toasters. We are talking about a product that is bought in part on enthusiast perception. I have a friend who wants a 911 because he wants a 911. For his budget he could get a Cayman which is just as fast and arguably the better drivers car. He wants a 911. I had another friend who bought a BMW 325. Why? Well in the 90s the 325 was the 3 series BMW to have (other than the rare M3). By the time she went to get the BMW the 330 had superseded the 325 and the 325 was now filling the shoes of the old 318. Didn't mater. She wanted 3 2 5.

What's my point? People buy these cars because they have an emotional attachment to the product. Sometimes we want to know that our Aluminum body Cobra was pounded out by half drunk yet highly skilled English panel workers under so old stone bridge somewhere. We want to think our Sony products are made in robotic factories* we want to think that non-smiling Germans scientist who just finished a moon rocket are now using calipers to check the width of the seatbelts after installing them. None of this has anything to do with real quality but perception does mater in this world.

Tangent 1: Perception is why we see so many jr league formula cars with F1 style stepped noses even though it's a design that makes little sense. The stepped nose was an attempt to get around rules meant to show the cars down. Indy never had stepped noses because they never had the same rule that made the step a reasonable idea. The SCCA FB/F1000 class is perhaps the fastest non-spec, open wheel class in the world other than F1. Yes, it really is sad that everything between F1 and F1000 is basically spec (or dead in the case of FA). Several manufactures entered F1000 with stepped nose cars. The two cars which have proven to be dominant have low noses.

*Tangent 2: In 1999 I visited a Sony factory in Japan. Far from being a bastion of automation, it had lot's of manual operations. The company was very good about trying new production layouts and ideas. Rather than theorize that something might be a good idea, they would just try it. Almost over night the layout would change and a new method was tried. The benches were made from PVC pipe and plywood. Far from the image one might think of but Sony's quality (though not their ability to respond to market forces after 2000) speaks for itself.
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Old Oct 13, 2013 | 03:51 PM
  #1821  
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Just saw the vette up close for the first time in the show room. First thing I thought was it going to transform into bubblebee's homeboy.

What are the black plastic vents on top of the rear quarter panels used for. That and the black plastic vents next to the brake lights have to do with anything?
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Old Oct 13, 2013 | 04:07 PM
  #1822  
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Originally Posted by Tacet-Conundrum
Just saw the vette up close for the first time in the show room. First thing I thought was it going to transform into bubblebee's homeboy.

What are the black plastic vents on top of the rear quarter panels used for. That and the black plastic vents next to the brake lights have to do with anything?
The top vents feed the transmission and differential oil coolers. The ones near the brakes are outlets for the same if I'm not mistaken. I can understand questioning the visuals but at least GM was honest about making such things functional.
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Old Oct 13, 2013 | 08:49 PM
  #1823  
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Originally Posted by LSJU
The top vents feed the transmission and differential oil coolers. The ones near the brakes are outlets for the same if I'm not mistaken. I can understand questioning the visuals but at least GM was honest about making such things functional.
Vents on rear qtr panels nonfunctional on non Z51 equipped cars. Z51 has dry sump oil system, e-differential , aero bits and bigger wheels and brembo brakes.
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Old Oct 13, 2013 | 09:53 PM
  #1824  
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Originally Posted by seapar
Vents on rear qtr panels nonfunctional on non Z51 equipped cars. Z51 has dry sump oil system, e-differential , aero bits and bigger wheels and brembo brakes.
I had to look it up and you sir are correct.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chev...ette/2014.html
I don't believe the dry sump uses the rear vents, rather it's used, presumably one per side, for the diff and transmission coolers and as you said, only on some models. The Vert pulls the air from under the car instead of above.

I can only speculate (and I will ) why.
Speculation 1. The underbody cooling is less effective but GM figures convertible owners are less likely to track the car (you damn well better put the car to the limits on the street!).
Speculation 2. The particular aero of the coupe or convertible makes the use of fender coolers more practical/less practical.
Speculation 3. The stylist were trying to avoid making the car too sedate. Personally I think this one. I do wish they had turned things down from 11 (and figured out a way to keep the round tail lights!).
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Old Oct 13, 2013 | 11:06 PM
  #1825  
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Obviously not a fan if spinal tap!
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Old Oct 14, 2013 | 05:51 AM
  #1826  
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Originally Posted by LSJU
That's a good question. As someone who has dealt with manufacturing I can say that what you are advocating does not directly affect quality. Ideally you design your production process to be so robust that you don't rely on a vigilant eye to get the job done right. Both the Germans and the Americans learned that from the Japanese (who ironically learned it from an American). Basically the things you mentioned are window dressing.

However, window dressing can matter. Though uniforms don't make a team and any company would be damned foolish to think otherwise, the team mindset is important. If uniforms help, good.

It's also a mater of PR. Look at the videos of the Tesla plant. They are carefully setup to make it appear as if Tesla is somehow more advanced than any of her competitors. Hardly. Most of their true manufacturing talent came out of the layoff in Detroit. They really know nothing that Detroit doesn't already know. However, we aren't talking about toasters. We are talking about a product that is bought in part on enthusiast perception. I have a friend who wants a 911 because he wants a 911. For his budget he could get a Cayman which is just as fast and arguably the better drivers car. He wants a 911. I had another friend who bought a BMW 325. Why? Well in the 90s the 325 was the 3 series BMW to have (other than the rare M3). By the time she went to get the BMW the 330 had superseded the 325 and the 325 was now filling the shoes of the old 318. Didn't mater. She wanted 3 2 5.

What's my point? People buy these cars because they have an emotional attachment to the product. Sometimes we want to know that our Aluminum body Cobra was pounded out by half drunk yet highly skilled English panel workers under so old stone bridge somewhere. We want to think our Sony products are made in robotic factories* we want to think that non-smiling Germans scientist who just finished a moon rocket are now using calipers to check the width of the seatbelts after installing them. None of this has anything to do with real quality but perception does mater in this world.

Tangent 1: Perception is why we see so many jr league formula cars with F1 style stepped noses even though it's a design that makes little sense. The stepped nose was an attempt to get around rules meant to show the cars down. Indy never had stepped noses because they never had the same rule that made the step a reasonable idea. The SCCA FB/F1000 class is perhaps the fastest non-spec, open wheel class in the world other than F1. Yes, it really is sad that everything between F1 and F1000 is basically spec (or dead in the case of FA). Several manufactures entered F1000 with stepped nose cars. The two cars which have proven to be dominant have low noses.

*Tangent 2: In 1999 I visited a Sony factory in Japan. Far from being a bastion of automation, it had lot's of manual operations. The company was very good about trying new production layouts and ideas. Rather than theorize that something might be a good idea, they would just try it. Almost over night the layout would change and a new method was tried. The benches were made from PVC pipe and plywood. Far from the image one might think of but Sony's quality (though not their ability to respond to market forces after 2000) speaks for itself.

Not saying your wrong, but what the hell has a union got to do with a company providing its staff a uniform/PPE? Madness

Sleeve-less tops are not suitable attire for a work area- cuts and abrasions etc

You are at work more than half your life so why not get free clothing- saves you money.

Think about 'Frits' at merc- think everyone has an image of a man with a mullet and grey clean overalls now think of 'bubba' at GM in his singlet ... It is about perception and appearance... who would YOU like to see working on your car. GM are definitely missing a trick on the shop floor and in marketing let alone in the safety of their workers.
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Old Oct 14, 2013 | 02:19 PM
  #1827  
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Originally Posted by naptownmike
They seem to be really cranking them out in this video at the factory. The workers seem so exited.

Why Chevy wants Corvette buyers to bond with their new toys - YouTube
Funny your typo is "exited" for "excited" -- they do indeed appear to have "exited" their bodies, which are now just soulless automatons. Reminds me of one of those futurists at a TED talk where he spoke of a far distant future when all the skilled jobs will be done by robots and all the menial tasks will be done by people. Only he was speaking in 2012 and the world had already passed that dystopian point of no return and is still accelerating.

There's no politically correct way I can invent to describe the simple fact that the delinquent class clown at the back of the room becomes the unhappy working poor, tasked with these dangerous, unhealthy, repetitious and ultimately soul-crushing life imprisonment sentences all for lack of a government and a blind-eyed gaping cracks society that refuses to vote for education and horrible burdens like social services while proudly paying up for missiles and aircraft carriers. How do I connect wars with factory jobs? Like that: one run-on sentence. But these poor, dumb, brain-washed flag wavers will vote for the next President with fervor and blue-vs-red, donkey-vs-elephant belief in a "we're 100% right, they're 100% wrong" jingoistic self-annihilation at any and all costs, their children and future generations, this planet and all aboard, be damned.
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Old Oct 15, 2013 | 08:52 PM
  #1828  
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This video is waaay better:


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Old Oct 15, 2013 | 09:10 PM
  #1829  
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SICK !!
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Old Oct 15, 2013 | 09:42 PM
  #1830  
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After watching the assembly of the C7 corvette, I will pass. When will they ever learn!

Years ago we performed some consulting work at a GM assembly plant for several months. I witnessed stuff that would make you sick! This video shows them at their best!

Last edited by MarkG123; Oct 15, 2013 at 10:07 PM.
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