Is Tesla in trouble?
05-11-2018, 07:46 PM
#31
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Terrible fan-boy bias?
I was just shortening up the copied part, but the 300mi range is a serious hit against all souless electric golf carts. Obviously making it very much not the best car in production.
Lots of bias. It's the "I can't believe it's not bias" bias. 7-seater 4.2 what? What factors are we saying make the best car in production right now?
Should we start a list of all the cars people here would rather have than a Tesla and why? Would that convince you? Or are all those people just confused and don't want the best?
You did conveniently leave out one major caveat (I noticed) which I made before my statement which was if you can get over plugging in and the 300 mile range, a Tesla is the best car currently out there.
No bias, just facts (see above).
Should we start a list of all the cars people here would rather have than a Tesla and why? Would that convince you? Or are all those people just confused and don't want the best?
05-11-2018, 08:06 PM
#32
I'll start.
1988 Porsche 928 It's paid for, it runs like a scalded dog, it's comfortable, it's sexy and I love it (fanboi)
05-11-2018, 08:34 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Tesla plays 'liquidity defense' as it puts up factory as collateral
BY MarketWatch— 8:38 AM ET 05/10/2018Bondholders hoped it wouldn't get to 'the other crown jewels'
Tesla Inc.'s ( TSLA
Loading...) move to amend its credit agreement with banks to put its Fremont, Calif., factory as collateral is a way for the Silicon Valley car maker to play "liquidity defense," analysts at CreditSights said in a note."We suspect that the banks may have required or 'encouraged' Tesla to add more assets to the borrowing base formula, and in doing so the banks are protecting themselves ahead of a period of heavy cash burn," said the analysts, led by Hitin Anand.Tesla's battery factory in Nevada was left out of the company's bond offering last year, and bondholders had hoped Tesla (TSLA) would not end up in a position "where it had to pledge the 'other crown jewels,'" the CreditSights analysts said.
Read more:Tesla's 'cash bleed' will likely double, analyst says (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/teslas-liquidity-to- remain-tight-capital-needs-high-analyst-says-2018-05-07)
Tesla needs to build a liquidity cushion or some backstop ahead of increased cash burn with the Model 3 production ramp, they said.
"Bondholders were aware of this contingent structural risk, but it arrived as a scenario sooner than anticipated," the analysts said.
Tesla has about $543 million left from a $1.8 billion asset-backed loan extended by a bank syndicate in June 2015, and in addition to protecting the availability of this amount, it could consider adding a back-up secured credit facility by pledging intangibles such as logo, patents, and intellectual property, the CreditSights analysts said.
Options to shore up its balance sheet also include short-term debt and, of course, selling more bonds or shares.
Related:Tesla's board is squarely in one activist investor's sights (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/teslas-board-is- squarely-in-one-activist-investors-sights-2018-05-09)
Tesla has said it would not tap capital markets this year. As recently as last week, during the company's post first- quarter results call with analysts, Chief Executive Elon Musk said he "specifically" does not "want" to raise capital.
Putting up the Fremont factory as collateral "sends a different message than the conference call," the CreditSights analysts said.
Tesla has upsized the asset-backed loan three times in the last year, Tesla said in a filing earlier this week.
On May 3, Tesla and a subsidiary entered into a ninth amendment to the agreement, allowing Tesla to include the Fremont factory facilities in the U.S. borrowing base, according to the filing (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ 1318605/000156459018011086/tsla-ex103_647.htm).
Tesla last year sold $1.8 billion in debt and its first-ever pure bonds drew criticism for lacking many of the customary bondholder protections for junk-rated issuance. (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/min...ype-teslas-15- billion-in-new-bonds-are-riskier-than-usual-2017-08-10)
The 5.300% notes, which mature in 2025, traded at 89 cents on the dollar Wednesday to yield 7.255%, according to trading platform MarketAxess. On a spread basis, they were trading at 426 basis points above comparable Treasurys, 45 basis points tighter on the day.
See also: Tesla bonds fall sharply after 'truly bizarre' earnings call; Moody's still expects capital raise (http:// http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tes...capital-raise- this-year-2018-05-03)
Tesla shares have lost 6.3% this year, which contrasts with 13% gains for the S&P 500 index and an advance of 17% for the Dow Jones Industrial Average.
-Claudia Assis; 415-439-6400; AskNewswires@dowjones.com (END) Dow Jones Newswires
05-10-18 0838ET
Copyright (c) 2018 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
MORE TSLA NEWS
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DJ Realtime News - 8:10 PM ET 05/09/2018 - U.S. safety board probes fatal Tesla accident in Florida
Reuters - 7:16 PM ET 05/09/2018
05-11-2018, 09:46 PM
#35
Banned
Lol. I like you, but seriously, did Tesla take your sand toys?
I get it's not for everyone, but why hate on something that's clearly good?
Terrible fan-boy bias?
I was just shortening up the copied part, but the 300mi range is a serious hit against all souless electric golf carts. Obviously making it very much not the best car in production.
Lots of bias. It's the "I can't believe it's not bias" bias. 7-seater 4.2 what? What factors are we saying make the best car in production right now?
Should we start a list of all the cars people here would rather have than a Tesla and why? Would that convince you? Or are all those people just confused and don't want the best?
I was just shortening up the copied part, but the 300mi range is a serious hit against all souless electric golf carts. Obviously making it very much not the best car in production.
Lots of bias. It's the "I can't believe it's not bias" bias. 7-seater 4.2 what? What factors are we saying make the best car in production right now?
Should we start a list of all the cars people here would rather have than a Tesla and why? Would that convince you? Or are all those people just confused and don't want the best?
05-12-2018, 01:13 AM
#36
Drifting
Some may like the cars very much. That does not hide the fact that it is costing them way more to make them than they can sell them for. And with the tax credit ending soon and dozens of comparable or in many cases likely better cars coming on the market in the next 1-2 years from manufacturers who do not need government money. Tesla is not in an enviable position.
05-12-2018, 01:15 AM
#37
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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No hate, just trying to be real. Honda Accords are also good. I don't want one of those either.
05-12-2018, 01:30 AM
#38
Race Director
Car to me relates to freedom. With ICE cars I can go anywhere. With a Tesla I can't go to Death Valley in the summer I don't think. That does not relate to freedom in my book.
I am sure by car performance matrix it is a good enough car, but I simply cannot take it anywhere remote at a moment's notice without major charging pit-stops along the way. Death Valley is one example, I am sure there are other places that I can't take a Tesla without a ton pf planning ahead of time.
CP
I am sure by car performance matrix it is a good enough car, but I simply cannot take it anywhere remote at a moment's notice without major charging pit-stops along the way. Death Valley is one example, I am sure there are other places that I can't take a Tesla without a ton pf planning ahead of time.
CP
05-12-2018, 05:31 AM
#39
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I take the Porsche when I want to go slow. You have no idea how slow it is by direct comparison...
When a company makes major investments in the future - whether it's research, engineering, or building production facilities for future products, that does not automatically mean the products in production are not profitable by themselves. It means the company is spending more than the profit they are making from building and selling their existing products.
Tesla has a master plan that clearly spells out that all money from existing models will be re-invested in additional products. As it turns out, they need much higher investments than the existing products can cover, which is why they are under water. Of course, this brings the risk of them running out of money before reaching the point of corporate profitability. But it's not an indicator of the cost of building each vehicle in relation to its selling price.
There are six Superchargers around Death Valley:
- Lone Pine, CA
- Baker, CA
- Las Vegas, NV
- Primm, NV
- Beatty, NV
- Tonopah, NV.
Depending on your route and battery size, you can even charge further away from there. Once charged, you can drive for 4-6 hours before you have to recharge. By that time you'll need a bathroom and food break anyway...
You can map out a route and see, if and where you need to charge:
https://www.tesla.com/trips
05-12-2018, 10:20 AM
#40
Race Director
Nicole,
That is why I said: at a moment's notice. Say your Tesla was low on charge at home. And you want to go far. You need to spend a couple hours charging before you can leave. In 108 degree days, I doubt you can drive a Tesla for 6 hours before charging unless you do not run AC cold. Then every few hours you charge for a couple hours. That is assuming there is no wait at the charging stations. Otherwise, it takes longer. When I am on the road, I do not spend 2 hours on bathroom and food, 45 minutes top. I know that can be done, but that is not anywhere close to freedom in my book.
True story. My in laws lives in Irvine. They were coming to San Jose for their grand-daughter's first birthday and they drove a Tesla S. They wanted to have lunch at Harris Ranch, charge the car full then drive the rest of the way. It was scalding hot and they ran their AC. They did not make it to Harris Ranch. They actually missed the girl's birthday event. This is first hand info.
That is why we bought a plug in hybrid. The range anxiety issue with a pure EV is simply not worth it to us.
CP
That is why I said: at a moment's notice. Say your Tesla was low on charge at home. And you want to go far. You need to spend a couple hours charging before you can leave. In 108 degree days, I doubt you can drive a Tesla for 6 hours before charging unless you do not run AC cold. Then every few hours you charge for a couple hours. That is assuming there is no wait at the charging stations. Otherwise, it takes longer. When I am on the road, I do not spend 2 hours on bathroom and food, 45 minutes top. I know that can be done, but that is not anywhere close to freedom in my book.
True story. My in laws lives in Irvine. They were coming to San Jose for their grand-daughter's first birthday and they drove a Tesla S. They wanted to have lunch at Harris Ranch, charge the car full then drive the rest of the way. It was scalding hot and they ran their AC. They did not make it to Harris Ranch. They actually missed the girl's birthday event. This is first hand info.
That is why we bought a plug in hybrid. The range anxiety issue with a pure EV is simply not worth it to us.
CP
05-12-2018, 10:57 AM
#41
Nicole, your analysis of Tesla’s “Master Plan” is commonly referred to as “gambling”, not “strategy” by people who actually run corporations. History has a way of predicting how these things usually work out, hence the trends in Tesla news articles and its current stock prices.
Elon might be an eccentric genius or visionary when it comes to technology but he’s not when it comes to business. I suspect his ego will be his, and Tesla’s, downfall.
Elon might be an eccentric genius or visionary when it comes to technology but he’s not when it comes to business. I suspect his ego will be his, and Tesla’s, downfall.
05-12-2018, 11:08 AM
#42
That is an incorrect conclusion based on the fact that the company as a whole is not profitable.
When a company makes major investments in the future - whether it's research, engineering, or building production facilities for future products, that does not automatically mean the products in production are not profitable by themselves. It means the company is spending more than the profit they are making from building and selling their existing products.
Tesla has a master plan that clearly spells out that all money from existing models will be re-invested in additional products. As it turns out, they need much higher investments than the existing products can cover, which is why they are under water. Of course, this brings the risk of them running out of money before reaching the point of corporate profitability. But it's not an indicator of the cost of building each vehicle in relation to its selling price.
When a company makes major investments in the future - whether it's research, engineering, or building production facilities for future products, that does not automatically mean the products in production are not profitable by themselves. It means the company is spending more than the profit they are making from building and selling their existing products.
Tesla has a master plan that clearly spells out that all money from existing models will be re-invested in additional products. As it turns out, they need much higher investments than the existing products can cover, which is why they are under water. Of course, this brings the risk of them running out of money before reaching the point of corporate profitability. But it's not an indicator of the cost of building each vehicle in relation to its selling price.
05-12-2018, 11:38 AM
#43
Race Director
From what I have read and heard, all prior Tesla models were aluminum. The 3 is steel. They have designed and programmed the weld-bots more for aluminum than steel. Now they have found numerous weld issues on the 3. It is not that simple to refit all the weld-bots for steel, and that is assuming they actually know what it takes to weld steel. That is why Elon recently lamented about the dependence on robotics and not enough human. Telsa is counting on the 3 series delivery cash to fund their operations. Now they are delivering very few 3s and burning cash like mad to fix the production problem, it is a race to see which comes first. I can see Elon having to raise another $5 B in the next quarter or two. If he cannot raise that, game may be over.
CP
CP
05-12-2018, 12:04 PM
#44
Tesla’s Engineering Chief Takes Leave of Absence at Pivotal Moment
So in a cost saving attempt someone (wonder who) decides to change from aluminium to steel . . . and the head engineer promptly goes awol.
Musk is going to do it himself Ha Ha. Hope all you tesla owners got third party warranties. I dont see the current admin bailing out a business model failure. Im not against electric cars - just govt subsidized failures.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-...ent-1526082594
- sorry, seubscription req'd
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/11/tesl...-time-off.html
- Field's leave of absence follows a string of executive departures from Tesla.
So in a cost saving attempt someone (wonder who) decides to change from aluminium to steel . . . and the head engineer promptly goes awol.
Musk is going to do it himself Ha Ha. Hope all you tesla owners got third party warranties. I dont see the current admin bailing out a business model failure. Im not against electric cars - just govt subsidized failures.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-...ent-1526082594
- sorry, seubscription req'd
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/11/tesl...-time-off.html
Last edited by BHMav8r; 05-12-2018 at 12:27 PM.
05-12-2018, 12:27 PM
#45
Team Owner
I don't see the Teslas as cars for those who have no other cars. Backing that up, I know and early adopter of the Model S. He regards the car as a 'toy' (his words). It's a curiosity which is why he bought it. Unlike many, the $100,000 price tag was insignificant so he could indulge himself scratching his curiosity itch.
He uses it occasionally for around town but usually chooses his ICE cars. As for a road trip, he'd never even consider it.
Tesla S as the best car in class? That's beyond bizarre.
He uses it occasionally for around town but usually chooses his ICE cars. As for a road trip, he'd never even consider it.
Tesla S as the best car in class? That's beyond bizarre.