Raleigh993

Just got back from Europe and 90%+ of the newer cars were diesel. Gas was around 1.6 euro / liter and diesel was 1.25 euro. They are not your father's diesel powered cars and were remarkably quiet. In Europe, it makes sense but in the US it's not as easy to justify the economic side.

fincher

Diesel pricing in the Chicago area is less in summer, higher in winter compared to gas...basically flat while gas moves up and down.

Diesel makes economic sense if you do not spend most of your driving in city traffic. Like previously stated, this isn't your father's diesel -- the modern diesel is high-tech, burns cleaner than gas and is super-fun to drive.

Love the cynics who repeatedly count the beans and determine that diesel here doesn't make sense. That's a load of what you get when you eat a ton of those beans!

Diesel makes sense for most driving habits.

You see more diesels here because there is high demand, not just because of some US requirement.

rpilot

First you state that diesel makes sense if you do not spend most of your driving in city traffic, which is true since diesels do provide better highway fuel economy.

Then you state that diesel makes sense for most driving habits. So, per your calculations the diesel macan in particular and cars in general are purchased primarily by rural inhabitants or people with long outside city commutes ??

I have news for you.. most purchasers of the Macan are either urbanites or suburbanites and as such a lot of the driving happens is stop or go traffic and a majority of NEW cars in America are sold in urban areas.

The 20-40% extra fuel economy that the diesel will give you comes at the cost of 10-25% extra cost of diesel fuel in the US on an average. When you have some time,read the DOE data on diesel fuel, the reasons for the price differences and what they are expected to do in the coming years.

My point was that I find it hard to believe that any significant money is really saved after adding up the purchase price differrential, the cost of fuel, cost of adblue and think some extra services (paid for at Porsche prices).

Yes, some of us are also not the ignorati around here. We are well aware of what the modern diesel is. It burns clean and the low end torque is fun to drive. But again, I stand by my data on C02 emissions which are more per mile by diesel WITH THE MOST MODERN DIESEL ENGINES WITH ADBLUE.. I was not referring to the older diesel engines. And yes there is still sulphur and other particulate matter that is not present with gasoline.

The diesel makes sense to you, so you are getting one. It does not give you a mandate for name calling on what someone else may or may not eat.

fincher

Nicely done. I do respect your opinion. You don't have to respect mine. Certainly was not trying light it up here.

I live in the suburbs of Chicago. Work in the city. About 75% of my driving is highway, often in some sort of traffic and sometimes in lousy traffic. I average 27mpg and get fuel every 500-600 miles with my TDI Touareg.

I came from a V8 Touareg prior to my TDI, which averaged 15mpg. The diesel made sense for me as the V6 doesn't touch the diesel. I drive 19k yearly.

AdBlue cost? How 'bout $12 for a 2.5 gallon jug...have to use it every 7-8k. Maybe Porsche charges $20 for the same jug...but it's part of the service.

We do agree on one thing: drive 15k plus yearly and the diesel wins.

Bottom line, diesel is more prevalent here because it makes better sense than in the past.

Suzy991

I think the problem in the US is that stupid AdBlue. We don't have that in Europe (only on very environmental friendly and fuel economic diesels like VW's slowmotion, ehmmm bluemotion models).

Here in Switzerland, diesel is also more expensive than gasoline (about 5-6%), but my A6 Avant with its 3.0 BiTDI 313hp engine from the European SQ5 makes so much more sense than any gasoline version of this car (except the RS6). It does 0-100km/h in 5.3 sec, yet I can easily get an average of 6.5 liters per 100km (36mpg). And that's driving where there are a lot of mountains. On a long highway trip I average about 45mpg, without even driving economic.
The figures for the (slower) gasoline version are 26mpg and 33mpg if you are very lucky to have a delicate right foot.

Service is once every 40,000km (25,000miles) and the car is about $4500 more than a similar equipped 3.0 V6 petrol version. CO2 is also lower (169g/km vs 190g/km for the 3.0TFSI). Not that I care about that though... I would rather have one that does 2000g/km just to annoy those idiotic green people.

The best thing however, is that a powerful diesel engine suits these kind of cars so much better. No matter if it is a car like my Avant or a Q5/SQ5 or Macan, these cars are just nicer ro drive with a (powerful and smooth) diesel engine..
The major problem with the Macan diesel is that they've put the wrong engine in it. It's not nice in the Q5, but it is even worse in the Macan.

If I wanted a Macan it would ONLY be the Turbo. Nothing else.

fincher

Suzy, what's wrong with the turbo diesel in the Macan?

Suzy991

It's not a very nice engine IMO. I've had it a couple of times in a Q5 as a loaner and it just feels less refined and a bit clucky. It's also less smooth and IMO it's a shame that Porsche has decided to use that engine instead of the fabulous BiTDI engine that is used in the European SQ5. I also drove the A6 with that engine and it felt the same as in the Q5. It's not a bad engine, but it doesn't match the premium feel of an upmarket Audi, let alone a Porsche. (Just my opinion of course).

It's for me the main reason why I stayed with Audi. I wanted to order a Macan diesel, untill it got introduced and the specs came available. I had the SQ5 at that moment, so it would be a downgrade if I had gone to a more expensive, less powerful and less refined Porsche. I also was slightly underwhelmed by the Macan to be honest, but the engine was the main reason.
Now I am very, very happy with the A6 Avant. Best daily driver I've had so far and about the same price as a Macan S diesel.

fincher

Interesting. I love the diesel in my Touareg. The low-end torque is great, especially on the highway. Would love the turbo Macan but that is out of my price range.

Buckfever

Talk about rubbing it in. We don't get the good diesel or the Avant here. :-)

Buckfever

The problem with your math is that the decision is between a Macan Diesel and an S. If its say 32 and 22 combined respectively @19k you're saving a grand. That's a lot of performance to give up for a grand.

Buckfever

Also I think Suzy makes a real good point. We don't know for sure what the pricing on the Diesel will be relative to the S. A lot of my initial assumptions were based on the Macan offerings to mirror the Cayenne's with the diesel priced between the base and the S.

rpilot

I don't know diesel pricing either.. but my guess on epa estimates for the macan diesel, 22-24 city with 30-32 hwy. Expect combined to be around 25-26 mpg vs 19 combined for the S gasoline.

There are higher maintenance costs too. Don't forget to test the Diesel's GYAOMY capability. ie: 70-100 times on the highway and long climbs in mountainous areas. That is the only reason I like engines with more HP AND Torque. The diesel may feel great sprinting like a jackrabbit from light to light but it is well worth driving it at high speed to see what your capabilities are and if they meet your expectations.

fincher

I don't follow the 'grand' part. My reason for the diesel isn't just fuel cost. I love the diesel performance. I certainly cannot afford a Turbo so between an S and the oil burner, I will take the latter any day.

fincher

Please explain the 'higher' maintenance costs? The only one I know of with the Porsche Cayenne Diesel is the 5k oil change in the US and Canada. This was changed from 10k only for the diesel. Interestingly, my TDI (same Diesel engine as the Pepper) is still at 10k intervals.

AdBlue is a negligible cost.

What else?

rpilot

This happens at Porsche dealers everyday too...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...ing-expensive/

The cost of my 991 oil change is a little over $400 each time at the Porsche dealer. Maybe less for the Macan, but every bit adds up and then you come out a bit ahead with diesel.

But like you have asserted, you can do all this yourself for peanuts.. so if it adds up for you... enjoy your diesel when you get it.