Jim Child

Wait a minute. We were talking about Time Attack. How did that change to drifting? I guarantee that if you ask virtually anyone in Ohio from high school students on up 99.99% of them will have never heard of Time Attack. Like I said, I'm pretty sure you couldn't find one to enter here if you wanted to.

BTW, how is it that you're such an expert on drifting? Don't you own only FWD cars? You're right there are people here in Ohio who are familiar with drifting, and they know you need a RWD car to do it.

Bryan Watts

Umm, because he's a Motorsports junky who would never turn down a chance to get behind the wheel and Mazda funded it in order to appeal to the market? If someone paid the bills, I'd get behind the wheels of a drift car too...that doesn't mean that it's not a fad.

Bryan Watts

It's good marketing...of course GM will be involved. I'm not sure how that proves that drifting is here to stay.

GhettoRacer

Time Attack needs another 1-2 years to mature and catch on fire like drifting did. But everyone in the aftermarket industry (and that doesn't include you rennlister keyboard warriors) all agree Time Attack is the current/next thing. The reason is obvious, scoring on drifting is subjecting, time attack is not. Fastest car/driver wins. Because of its open rules, it allows tuners to show case their skills/products.

I'm not an expert on drifting but I've been following it for a while. I'm passionate about all forms of production car racing. The biggest NorCal drifting amature organzation is call DriftBattle. It is hosted by Al Lagura and his partners. When Al hosted his first ever practice event at Buttonwillow in 2003, I help them out a bit by sharing my knowledge of organizing track days.





me and Al in 2003...

http://www.ghettoracer.com/events/hm-bw-0903/

I'm not a great drifter, but I can pull it off...



fwd drift in EK. (2005?)



drifting my sister's 323. (2003)



drifting in miata (2003)



another 323 drift in 2003.



drifting in delsol in 2001, notice gummy 205/50/15 tires up front and tiny 165/70/13 all season tires on back...



me opposite locking in wrx in 2007



going 3 wheel in the air and recovering from a tail slide...

Bull

Don't worry Ding Dong Dung, I also have a fair amount of experience in FWD cars too....but then you wouldn't know that because you never ask, never listen, and just make your assumptions and wallow in your ignorance. Call it the infinite wisdom of the uninformed!

Bonster

***Sorry, T.E.A.M. Racing events are at this time still just open track / school events -- no racing. I see you racing and I'll send ya home.

Bonster

BTW, my opinion . . . drifting = buying lots of differentials and wasting tires. Good drifters are a kick to watch though, if you don't have something better to do. The people out at Thundehrhill last weekend didn't know their butts from a hole in the ground. My daily driver could have done better (I know that I can drift -- I taught a two-day skid pad school last year at Willow Springs). Would I drift as a regular sport? Not on your life. Just way too noisy and destructive. But that's just my opinion. Count it with a grain of sand.

GhettoRacer

IMO, as long as I'm doing it in a controlled manner, racing against the clock (not against anybody else), then it should be allowed. simply use the three 4 wheels off and you pack up and go home.

GhettoRacer

yah, but if money wasn't a factor you telling me you wouldn't like to burn rubber?! please be honest now...

lot of people here don't appreciate Drift King's driving skills, this is a LeMans winner for crying out loud. this video gives a good perspective on his serious side. because he can be a goof ball too.

http://www.gtchannel.com/ch1/?s=movi...402&afid=26132

him taking ARTA's million $ JGTC NSX and break Tsukuba's record by 1.2 second...

GhettoRacer

So see you there. Let me know if you need assistance in anything. Do you plan to rent a car and go to the track by yourself? So the bet is $1000/sec or $100 per .10th. I dunno about you, but I do get lucky and win I'll donate the $ to http://www.kiva.org If i lose you can do whatever you want.

Now, how do you want to do this? Time Attack style? 1 warm up, 3 hot laps. Or fastest lap time out of any session?

GhettoRacer

ok, if we do it time attack style, you can have the option of going first, or after me. i think it's more intense time attack style. but we can just use fastest lap time of any session if you wish (but the problem is you might not get a clear track)...

Bryan Watts

It's not your event, so you don't make the rules. Some clubs don't allow timing because their insurance doesn't allow it, or simply because they don't want duffusses like you who can't drive going out there and trying to run 10/10ths at a driving school. No matter how much you want it to be racing and how much you tell all your family/friends that it's racing, it's not.

Bonster

Your 'opinion', Frank, is not what has made T.E.A.M. Racing a successful group for the past five (nearly six) years. I make those rules based upon experience. But what I don't get is how come you started out with the original statement, which eluded to you and folks on this list using my event to do this 'charity race'. Then you turn around and say, " . . .racing against the clock (not against anybody else)".

Bryan is right . . . if we were to supply timing, and you got into a wreck, your insurance company might see it as a competition event as opposed to an open track/school event. We don't mind if folks set up a beacon and get some in-car timing going, but we will not supply the timing equipment. Additionally, Bryan is correct that if we were to supply timing equipment, we'd have to run under a different insurance policy with the track.

So no, you would not be able to use a T.E.A.M. Racing event as a venue for this charity race thing you are trying to put on. HOWEVER . . . Thunderhill, for instance, will rent the track out for private testing so long as all cars involved are race prepared (as in, log book, annual tech, etc.) for a fairly cheap price. You have to pay extra for towing, fire, ambulance, etc., if you want it, though. But the track does rent to private groups like that for less than they would for a group like mine. So maybe that's what you should do.

As far as the drifting thing . . . money isn't really a factor. I just simply don't like it. Call it mechanical empathy if you will, but I just don't like beating up my car that way. More so, I don't like the noise or the smell. When I taught skid pad exercizes last year, it was on a wet pad, so the tires did not suffer as much, and I was able to teach my class what I wanted them to learn without going very fast. The object of the skid pad exercize is not to teach them to drift. It is to teach them the dynamics of a car's shift in supsension under load when braking, lifting the throttle, and engaging the accelerator. I also encouraged them to intentionally spin, so that they can practice both feet in (and, of course, not dump the clutch). One Asian kid asked me if I could sustain a drift . . . HA! No problem. So I humored the young fellow and did the hands-in-the-air thing in my street car. It's really not hard to do if you know how. I got the car in a controlled drift for one full lap around the skid pad, then braked and got it going the other direction. The kid was thrilled. That was just an extra -- wasn't what I was trying to show them. But it was at the end of the class, so I figured why not?

Young folks have a common misconception about drifting. In racing, we do it often, usually to shave speed off. NASCAR drivers do it all the time. It's an element in racing, but I don't see its usefullness when it's not part of the bigger picture. You asked . . . I answered. Sorry, I'm just not into drifting as a sport. If I could afford to do *any* type of motorsports, I'd be more likely to check out the F1 or IRL scene. Though, I'm nowhere near good enough a driver to handle something so fast and sophisticated. Darn it!

GhettoRacer

I was just making a statement on my feelings about red/fast group rules based on what I've seen over 12 years in wide variety of DE organizations. YMMV.

Bonster

Okay, please tell me what group or groups allow this, Frank. I have been an instructor and/or driver in the following groups over the years:

Unlimited Laps
Track Masters Racing
Porsche Owner's Club
Porsche Club of America
BMW CCA
Golden Gate Lotus Club
NCRC
ARC
NASA
Aaron Tachibana
So Cal Miata
Danny McKeever
SCCA

None of these groups encourage competition, and will likely send you packin' if you drive too aggressively. If you want to race -- RACE. DEs are not for racing. They are fun, exhilerating, and fast, but racing is expressly not allowed. Perhaps you missed the driver's meeting?