Drank the GT4 koolaid !
10-30-2018, 03:57 PM
#46
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Thanks John ! appreciate the track prep tips. I remember reading last year about the piston pucks, but will take it to my shop that has been doing my corner balancing for years . If anybody has some track proven alignment specs they'd like to share , it would be appreciated.
I am interested in eventually waking up the sound a tad and have seen Youtube clips of your exhaust and Fabspeed. Not sure yet but will wait til next season to hear some GT4's in the wild. Definitely doing GT3 TB upgrade and some Tarrett suspension bits.
I do occasionally go to NJMP but will be at LRP, WG and VIR this coming season. I might do the last NYST event next week...still pending but will you be there ? If I go I'll be tracking my M4 not GT4.
Cheers !
Mike
I am interested in eventually waking up the sound a tad and have seen Youtube clips of your exhaust and Fabspeed. Not sure yet but will wait til next season to hear some GT4's in the wild. Definitely doing GT3 TB upgrade and some Tarrett suspension bits.
I do occasionally go to NJMP but will be at LRP, WG and VIR this coming season. I might do the last NYST event next week...still pending but will you be there ? If I go I'll be tracking my M4 not GT4.
Cheers !
Mike
I'll shoot you a PM to discuss some chassis setup, sound characteristics of exhaust upgrades, and the performance potential of various bolt ons. I think you'll find some are going to offer a much better return on investment than others.
Have you decided on your schedule for those events at LRP, WG, and VIR next season? For the remainder of this season, I'll be at NJMP 11/3 and 11/4, as well at 11/6 and Sebring on 11/16-11/18. Not sure on December plans yet. When is the NYST event next week and with what group?
- John Gaydos
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SOUL PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS
Quality Exhaust Solutions, Fair Pricing, and Outstanding Service
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Jon Wheel - Marketing Manager
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11-03-2018, 10:01 PM
#47
Congrats. Beautiful car. Hopefully I am not far behind you. Also good to see old BMW's getting some love over here in the Porsche world, since I just sold my e46 M3 and left that side after 25 years of loyalty.
I'd be curious to hear how much you paid for the GT4? Market seems to be getting softer, with sellers kind of slow to adapt..........just judging by the amount of cars that are on the market, the duration of them not moving, and the asking prices still close to MSRP.
I'd be curious to hear how much you paid for the GT4? Market seems to be getting softer, with sellers kind of slow to adapt..........just judging by the amount of cars that are on the market, the duration of them not moving, and the asking prices still close to MSRP.
11-04-2018, 09:00 AM
#48
Drifting
YUP! That's the way it is. You might be able to find a spectacular deal, but you will have to be flexible on spec and miles. And timing.
You cant say that the market is slow to adjust - the market IS what the market currently is.
You cant say that the market is slow to adjust - the market IS what the market currently is.
11-04-2018, 11:27 AM
#49
Drifting
Congrats. Beautiful car. Hopefully I am not far behind you. Also good to see old BMW's getting some love over here in the Porsche world, since I just sold my e46 M3 and left that side after 25 years of loyalty.
I'd be curious to hear how much you paid for the GT4? Market seems to be getting softer, with sellers kind of slow to adapt..........just judging by the amount of cars that are on the market, the duration of them not moving, and the asking prices still close to MSRP.
I'd be curious to hear how much you paid for the GT4? Market seems to be getting softer, with sellers kind of slow to adapt..........just judging by the amount of cars that are on the market, the duration of them not moving, and the asking prices still close to MSRP.
11-04-2018, 12:10 PM
#50
I'm just going by what I noticed over the course of the last 16 months that I've been dreaming/hoping to get one. When I first started to look, all of them were priced over MSRP, with just a handful of cars on the market. Now, only a little over a year later, there are probably over a 100 cars for sale. Now that still may not be a lot compared to other cars, but for a one year production car that was this hot, it seems like a drastic change.
More importantly I see a lot of price drops. When you sing up with cars.com, or whatever sight, for notification of new listings and price drops, it becomes a bit more evident what is happening. Even on the Rennlist ads, several cars that sold had multiple price drops before doing so. One thing that I always chuckle about, is that when someone here lists a car, many chime in with comments like 'fair price", "why hasn't this car sold yet" and things of that nature. I'm not trying to exaggerate and I want the values to stay high, because I will be an owner soon myself, but the market is slow to adapt when sellers are stuck on prices that aren't working, then lower it, and eventually the cars sells. If they were to price them lower they would sell quicker, obviously.
I'm sure there are still some that sell for close to MSRP, but we there is a greater disparity now also between many cars. Those with still just a few 100's or 1000's of miles and those that have quite a bit more. It sometimes seems that even those with 10k15k miles or more, still price their car like they only have 2k miles. That I don't get at all.
11-04-2018, 12:34 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
I'm just going by what I noticed over the course of the last 16 months that I've been dreaming/hoping to get one. When I first started to look, all of them were priced over MSRP, with just a handful of cars on the market. Now, only a little over a year later, there are probably over a 100 cars for sale. Now that still may not be a lot compared to other cars, but for a one year production car that was this hot, it seems like a drastic change.
More importantly I see a lot of price drops. When you sing up with cars.com, or whatever sight, for notification of new listings and price drops, it becomes a bit more evident what is happening. Even on the Rennlist ads, several cars that sold had multiple price drops before doing so. One thing that I always chuckle about, is that when someone here lists a car, many chime in with comments like 'fair price", "why hasn't this car sold yet" and things of that nature. I'm not trying to exaggerate and I want the values to stay high, because I will be an owner soon myself, but the market is slow to adapt when sellers are stuck on prices that aren't working, then lower it, and eventually the cars sells. If they were to price them lower they would sell quicker, obviously.
I'm sure there are still some that sell for close to MSRP, but we there is a greater disparity now also between many cars. Those with still just a few 100's or 1000's of miles and those that have quite a bit more. It sometimes seems that even those with 10k15k miles or more, still price their car like they only have 2k miles. That I don't get at all.
More importantly I see a lot of price drops. When you sing up with cars.com, or whatever sight, for notification of new listings and price drops, it becomes a bit more evident what is happening. Even on the Rennlist ads, several cars that sold had multiple price drops before doing so. One thing that I always chuckle about, is that when someone here lists a car, many chime in with comments like 'fair price", "why hasn't this car sold yet" and things of that nature. I'm not trying to exaggerate and I want the values to stay high, because I will be an owner soon myself, but the market is slow to adapt when sellers are stuck on prices that aren't working, then lower it, and eventually the cars sells. If they were to price them lower they would sell quicker, obviously.
I'm sure there are still some that sell for close to MSRP, but we there is a greater disparity now also between many cars. Those with still just a few 100's or 1000's of miles and those that have quite a bit more. It sometimes seems that even those with 10k15k miles or more, still price their car like they only have 2k miles. That I don't get at all.
11-04-2018, 04:47 PM
#52
Drifting
I'm just going by what I noticed over the course of the last 16 months that I've been dreaming/hoping to get one. When I first started to look, all of them were priced over MSRP, with just a handful of cars on the market. Now, only a little over a year later, there are probably over a 100 cars for sale. Now that still may not be a lot compared to other cars, but for a one year production car that was this hot, it seems like a drastic change.
More importantly I see a lot of price drops. When you sing up with cars.com, or whatever sight, for notification of new listings and price drops, it becomes a bit more evident what is happening. Even on the Rennlist ads, several cars that sold had multiple price drops before doing so. One thing that I always chuckle about, is that when someone here lists a car, many chime in with comments like 'fair price", "why hasn't this car sold yet" and things of that nature. I'm not trying to exaggerate and I want the values to stay high, because I will be an owner soon myself, but the market is slow to adapt when sellers are stuck on prices that aren't working, then lower it, and eventually the cars sells. If they were to price them lower they would sell quicker, obviously.
I'm sure there are still some that sell for close to MSRP, but we there is a greater disparity now also between many cars. Those with still just a few 100's or 1000's of miles and those that have quite a bit more. It sometimes seems that even those with 10k15k miles or more, still price their car like they only have 2k miles. That I don't get at all.
More importantly I see a lot of price drops. When you sing up with cars.com, or whatever sight, for notification of new listings and price drops, it becomes a bit more evident what is happening. Even on the Rennlist ads, several cars that sold had multiple price drops before doing so. One thing that I always chuckle about, is that when someone here lists a car, many chime in with comments like 'fair price", "why hasn't this car sold yet" and things of that nature. I'm not trying to exaggerate and I want the values to stay high, because I will be an owner soon myself, but the market is slow to adapt when sellers are stuck on prices that aren't working, then lower it, and eventually the cars sells. If they were to price them lower they would sell quicker, obviously.
I'm sure there are still some that sell for close to MSRP, but we there is a greater disparity now also between many cars. Those with still just a few 100's or 1000's of miles and those that have quite a bit more. It sometimes seems that even those with 10k15k miles or more, still price their car like they only have 2k miles. That I don't get at all.
2063 GT4s in the us. I wonder how many are still owned by the original owner and what the average number of owners the data set has had. These are toys (I daily drove my 06 M3 it don’t my GT4) and many swap them out for the next toy. I’ve had mine for 32 months (bought it new) and am always thinking about selling it but still haven’t found something else more desirable for about the same price (or for 25k more for that matter).
11-04-2018, 05:19 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Congrats and welcome! LRP is also my home track--see you there sometime. I tend to run with SCDA or CVR PCA.
11-04-2018, 06:09 PM
#54
I don’t see Rennlist as representing the broader market. Comments on prices are often silly. Buyers (such what you are doing) should do their homework and make a decision that works for them.
2063 GT4s in the us. I wonder how many are still owned by the original owner and what the average number of owners the data set has had. These are toys (I daily drove my 06 M3 it don’t my GT4) and many swap them out for the next toy. I’ve had mine for 32 months (bought it new) and am always thinking about selling it but still haven’t found something else more desirable for about the same price (or for 25k more for that matter).
2063 GT4s in the us. I wonder how many are still owned by the original owner and what the average number of owners the data set has had. These are toys (I daily drove my 06 M3 it don’t my GT4) and many swap them out for the next toy. I’ve had mine for 32 months (bought it new) and am always thinking about selling it but still haven’t found something else more desirable for about the same price (or for 25k more for that matter).
I wasn't sure I was going to go for the GT4. For the last year I was pretty set to get an M2 or M2 Competition and I noticed similar phenomenon with the prices on those early on. Sellers seem to need some time to adjust to the market, when the supply reaches the demand. In both cases, these cars were in short supply and high demand early on, making them depreciate hardly at all, but then all over sudden the supply caught up. In the case of the M2 it was more due to the fact that they made them for 3 years now, and with the GT4 is just seems that it is the anticipation of the 718 GT4? Not sure and not a big deal. 2063 is not a lot of cars, but I guess it is a small segment.
11-04-2018, 07:26 PM
#55
Drifting
Those where most likely CPO'd cars then, which does add a value, so in reality we are kind of both making the same point aren't we?
Agreed, I don't just look on Rennlist, in fact I came looking her almost last, and I will say that at least some cars are priced a bit more realistic here compared to the popular used car sites. I was just referring to those that have been listed for a while, and fellow members chiming in with comments suggesting the price was set right. If a car hasn't sold in months, then it's probably not priced right, in most cases. Supply/demand! No demand = lower price.
I wasn't sure I was going to go for the GT4. For the last year I was pretty set to get an M2 or M2 Competition and I noticed similar phenomenon with the prices on those early on. Sellers seem to need some time to adjust to the market, when the supply reaches the demand. In both cases, these cars were in short supply and high demand early on, making them depreciate hardly at all, but then all over sudden the supply caught up. In the case of the M2 it was more due to the fact that they made them for 3 years now, and with the GT4 is just seems that it is the anticipation of the 718 GT4? Not sure and not a big deal. 2063 is not a lot of cars, but I guess it is a small segment.
Agreed, I don't just look on Rennlist, in fact I came looking her almost last, and I will say that at least some cars are priced a bit more realistic here compared to the popular used car sites. I was just referring to those that have been listed for a while, and fellow members chiming in with comments suggesting the price was set right. If a car hasn't sold in months, then it's probably not priced right, in most cases. Supply/demand! No demand = lower price.
I wasn't sure I was going to go for the GT4. For the last year I was pretty set to get an M2 or M2 Competition and I noticed similar phenomenon with the prices on those early on. Sellers seem to need some time to adjust to the market, when the supply reaches the demand. In both cases, these cars were in short supply and high demand early on, making them depreciate hardly at all, but then all over sudden the supply caught up. In the case of the M2 it was more due to the fact that they made them for 3 years now, and with the GT4 is just seems that it is the anticipation of the 718 GT4? Not sure and not a big deal. 2063 is not a lot of cars, but I guess it is a small segment.
11-04-2018, 09:00 PM
#56
I expect my next dd to be the M2 Comp (although I read the R&T cover article today and it raises some doubts) but I’m not sure the Porsche GT market compares with BMW M cars. Maybe similar but Porsche seems to be able to develop desirable products and manage the supply, impacting ‘value’ in the marketplace. Not sure if there is another regular manufacturer who is able to do this, to this degree. Which is also why there are so many value related threads on rennlist...
11-04-2018, 11:46 PM
#57
2063 GT4s in the us. I wonder how many are still owned by the original owner and what the average number of owners the data set has had. These are toys (I daily drove my 06 M3 it don’t my GT4) and many swap them out for the next toy. I’ve had mine for 32 months (bought it new) and am always thinking about selling it but still haven’t found something else more desirable for about the same price (or for 25k more for that matter).
BryanCO, agree with your comments above. I also daily drove my ‘06 M3 but don’t my GT4 which is 31 months from when I bought it new as well. I have driven it plenty and have over 12k miles on it. Like you I sometimes entertain the thought of selling it for the same value +25k or thereabouts but just don’t find anything that I think would satisfy the feeling I get when I drive the GT4. When I’m sitting in the buckets, rowing gears and hearing the loud flat six behind my head along with the feeling that I’m part of the car, it will take another special car to make me replace this.
11-05-2018, 07:48 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
Those where most likely CPO'd cars then, which does add a value, so in reality we are kind of both making the same point aren't we?
Agreed, I don't just look on Rennlist, in fact I came looking her almost last, and I will say that at least some cars are priced a bit more realistic here compared to the popular used car sites. I was just referring to those that have been listed for a while, and fellow members chiming in with comments suggesting the price was set right. If a car hasn't sold in months, then it's probably not priced right, in most cases. Supply/demand! No demand = lower price.
I wasn't sure I was going to go for the GT4. For the last year I was pretty set to get an M2 or M2 Competition and I noticed similar phenomenon with the prices on those early on. Sellers seem to need some time to adjust to the market, when the supply reaches the demand. In both cases, these cars were in short supply and high demand early on, making them depreciate hardly at all, but then all over sudden the supply caught up. In the case of the M2 it was more due to the fact that they made them for 3 years now, and with the GT4 is just seems that it is the anticipation of the 718 GT4? Not sure and not a big deal. 2063 is not a lot of cars, but I guess it is a small segment.
Agreed, I don't just look on Rennlist, in fact I came looking her almost last, and I will say that at least some cars are priced a bit more realistic here compared to the popular used car sites. I was just referring to those that have been listed for a while, and fellow members chiming in with comments suggesting the price was set right. If a car hasn't sold in months, then it's probably not priced right, in most cases. Supply/demand! No demand = lower price.
I wasn't sure I was going to go for the GT4. For the last year I was pretty set to get an M2 or M2 Competition and I noticed similar phenomenon with the prices on those early on. Sellers seem to need some time to adjust to the market, when the supply reaches the demand. In both cases, these cars were in short supply and high demand early on, making them depreciate hardly at all, but then all over sudden the supply caught up. In the case of the M2 it was more due to the fact that they made them for 3 years now, and with the GT4 is just seems that it is the anticipation of the 718 GT4? Not sure and not a big deal. 2063 is not a lot of cars, but I guess it is a small segment.
11-05-2018, 08:47 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
we are, but the market hasn’t shifted as dramatically as some might make it out to be because rennlist doesn’t sell cars. I paid 5k under for my GT4 a year ago. That’s what they’re going for now. For reference my local dealer had a Carmine Red with 4K miles, no buckets and CPO. It sold 6k under MSRP in less the 2 weeks.
Totally agree !
I also noticed that dealers and some owners are not in a rush to sell them, or at least give them away . The GT4 is amazing eye candy for any showroom.
I bought my GT4 to keep as a legacy Porsche. In the 30+ yrs I've been around the brand I've met a few memorable owners, but the ones that stick out the most are the ones that have owned their P cars for decades. This GT4 will hopefully be a part of my family for a long time. I have a 27 yr old daughter who will get it one day.
The marketplace perception is an odd thing . When I was shopping for my M4, I was looking for a highly optioned car. Executive Package which gives you HUD and Harman Kardon was a must, and it had to be Austin Yellow as for some reason , at least to me, it makes the M4 look even more exotic coupled with the M4 GTS wing., and lastly, it had to be CPO. Current M3/M4 values for non-CPO units are now in the $45-49K range for low mileage examples ( 25-30K miles ) for both Private Party and Dealers which isn't that far from what the BMW Lease Residual Buy Out number is. Its the same depreciation curve for current Audi RS and Mercedes AMG cars. Gems of the secondary market indeed.
However, once you start narrowing your search down to M's ( or AMG's / RS's ) with specific options and CPO they bounce up quite a bit. Competition Package, 20 in 666 wheels , Full leather on certain colors that are rare still cost money. A Nardo on Red M4 w/ Comp Pack is crazy rare w/ 3 pedals .
I noticed the same with the GT4. The low spec units with comfy chairs, non Sport Chrono , are by far the least expensive , which at least to me, are still desirable . High spec GT4's with under 4K miles are going to cost you money regardless. You're not going to lose with those for a choice.
Porsche is the one and only brand that has truly found a way to keep the market engaged and the values of any Porsche consistent . Having worked for Audi of America for over a decade and Mercedes Benz for a little over a year, we were always envious of this . Porsche is still the only manufacturer that believes in "race on Sunday- sell on Monday".
Audi has just started to touch on this a little with Audisport, but Mercedes has little to no AMG presence in their showrooms in the USA . You would think with all the Formula One wins they would flaunt it.
11-05-2018, 10:25 AM
#60
we are, but the market hasn’t shifted as dramatically as some might make it out to be because rennlist doesn’t sell cars. I paid 5k under for my GT4 a year ago. That’s what they’re going for now. For reference my local dealer had a Carmine Red with 4K miles, no buckets and CPO. It sold 6k under MSRP in less the 2 weeks.
Totally agree !
I also noticed that dealers and some owners are not in a rush to sell them, or at least give them away . The GT4 is amazing eye candy for any showroom.
I bought my GT4 to keep as a legacy Porsche. In the 30+ yrs I've been around the brand I've met a few memorable owners, but the ones that stick out the most are the ones that have owned their P cars for decades. This GT4 will hopefully be a part of my family for a long time. I have a 27 yr old daughter who will get it one day.
The marketplace perception is an odd thing . When I was shopping for my M4, I was looking for a highly optioned car. Executive Package which gives you HUD and Harman Kardon was a must, and it had to be Austin Yellow as for some reason , at least to me, it makes the M4 look even more exotic coupled with the M4 GTS wing., and lastly, it had to be CPO. Current M3/M4 values for non-CPO units are now in the $45-49K range for low mileage examples ( 25-30K miles ) for both Private Party and Dealers which isn't that far from what the BMW Lease Residual Buy Out number is. Its the same depreciation curve for current Audi RS and Mercedes AMG cars. Gems of the secondary market indeed.
However, once you start narrowing your search down to M's ( or AMG's / RS's ) with specific options and CPO they bounce up quite a bit. Competition Package, 20 in 666 wheels , Full leather on certain colors that are rare still cost money. A Nardo on Red M4 w/ Comp Pack is crazy rare w/ 3 pedals .
I noticed the same with the GT4. The low spec units with comfy chairs, non Sport Chrono , are by far the least expensive , which at least to me, are still desirable . High spec GT4's with under 4K miles are going to cost you money regardless. You're not going to lose with those for a choice.
Porsche is the one and only brand that has truly found a way to keep the market engaged and the values of any Porsche consistent . Having worked for Audi of America for over a decade and Mercedes Benz for a little over a year, we were always envious of this . Porsche is still the only manufacturer that believes in "race on Sunday- sell on Monday".
Audi has just started to touch on this a little with Audisport, but Mercedes has little to no AMG presence in their showrooms in the USA . You would think with all the Formula One wins they would flaunt it.
I also noticed that dealers and some owners are not in a rush to sell them, or at least give them away . The GT4 is amazing eye candy for any showroom.
I bought my GT4 to keep as a legacy Porsche. In the 30+ yrs I've been around the brand I've met a few memorable owners, but the ones that stick out the most are the ones that have owned their P cars for decades. This GT4 will hopefully be a part of my family for a long time. I have a 27 yr old daughter who will get it one day.
The marketplace perception is an odd thing . When I was shopping for my M4, I was looking for a highly optioned car. Executive Package which gives you HUD and Harman Kardon was a must, and it had to be Austin Yellow as for some reason , at least to me, it makes the M4 look even more exotic coupled with the M4 GTS wing., and lastly, it had to be CPO. Current M3/M4 values for non-CPO units are now in the $45-49K range for low mileage examples ( 25-30K miles ) for both Private Party and Dealers which isn't that far from what the BMW Lease Residual Buy Out number is. Its the same depreciation curve for current Audi RS and Mercedes AMG cars. Gems of the secondary market indeed.
However, once you start narrowing your search down to M's ( or AMG's / RS's ) with specific options and CPO they bounce up quite a bit. Competition Package, 20 in 666 wheels , Full leather on certain colors that are rare still cost money. A Nardo on Red M4 w/ Comp Pack is crazy rare w/ 3 pedals .
I noticed the same with the GT4. The low spec units with comfy chairs, non Sport Chrono , are by far the least expensive , which at least to me, are still desirable . High spec GT4's with under 4K miles are going to cost you money regardless. You're not going to lose with those for a choice.
Porsche is the one and only brand that has truly found a way to keep the market engaged and the values of any Porsche consistent . Having worked for Audi of America for over a decade and Mercedes Benz for a little over a year, we were always envious of this . Porsche is still the only manufacturer that believes in "race on Sunday- sell on Monday".
Audi has just started to touch on this a little with Audisport, but Mercedes has little to no AMG presence in their showrooms in the USA . You would think with all the Formula One wins they would flaunt it.
Not to get too far off track, but I agree 100% with you about race on Sunday sell on Monday. BMW has not been as active as they used to be during the 80's,90's & early 2000's in Motorsport, and it shows. The M3/4 is still an awesome car, as you well know, but it isn't the benchmark in sports sedans anymore. It used to be that the M3 was king in that segment, now the waters are pretty murky on that subject.
I'm sure there are many reasons the values on Porsche don't drop like those of BMW's or other brands. The biggest reason is that they are on top of their game making phenomenal cars. But to be fair, a lot of exotic cars have turned in to "investments" for wealthy people and I am sure that rubs off a little on them as well, as they just don't make enough cars to satisfy supply. Look at the 911R. That was pure speculation at first.
Last but not least, it looks to me like Porsche does raise the prices on a new model more than the rate of inflation. (I could be wrong) but what is the MSRP difference between a 991.1 and a 991.2 GT3? Seems like it is at least $20k in just a few years time. So that instantly helps the used ones from depreciating. And lets just assume they do the same thing with the 718 GT4's MSRP, and set it at ~$115k, compared to a similar optioned 981 that came in at ~$95k. That would certainly help the current GT4 keep its value for good. Not sure if that is Porsche genius or what, but it does work for those that have cars, and it sucks for those looking from the outside in, which is why I am done waiting and am going to get in. :-)