718 GT4?
09-21-2018, 08:42 AM
#3346
Three Wheelin'
That Lotus is a tasty bit of kit, I love it, I'd love to own and drive one, but not at that price point !
I'm not buying what is nearly a kitcar for 130k eur !
I'm not buying what is nearly a kitcar for 130k eur !
09-21-2018, 08:45 AM
#3347
The Lotus was my #1 choice before the GT4 was announced...but there's is a big BUT in buying the Lotus Exige Cup this side of the pond....it's not street legal and a bit pricy for a track-only car.
GT4 is a perfect mix and I could say build quality should be much better than the Lotus from what I have heard and read.
Still...the Exige is a very interesting car that one day I would love to drive.
GT4 is a perfect mix and I could say build quality should be much better than the Lotus from what I have heard and read.
Still...the Exige is a very interesting car that one day I would love to drive.
09-21-2018, 09:39 AM
#3348
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I think you guys have to go and lay the curves on top of each other as EXMB suggested; peak numbers are one thing but if you look at the difference in power of what a 991 GTS makes vs. a GT4 at 7K RPM, you will be pleasantly surprised.
As for the whole "why aren't we getting a 4.0L GT3 motor" question, you have to noodle over the following:
1.) you can't slam a GT3 motor in a 981 because of several fitment reasons, the biggest being the oil sump tank. (required re-engineering of the motor and/or unibody for a car that is really a 2nd step beyond a previous model).
2.) the Siemens SDI 9.1 used to run all 991s/981s will not spin over 8160. The ECU architecture doesn't allow it. (required re-engineering of the ECU platform)
3.) Look at the outright engine costs - a 991. GT3 motor is $75K to buy new; a 4.0L 991.1 911R motor is $98K and a GT4 motor is $45K. (pricepoint would have to be re-engineered and would land at GT3 levels, which is not wanted by people on either side of the table.)
I dont doubt that a 4.0L GT3 motor found its way into a 981 in Weissach at one point or another and while there's no doubt that the resources are there to execute everything listed above in a nanosecond, sometimes it just doesn't make sense. Unfortunately you cant just Mr. Potato Head that motor in that car like you can with a lot of other things. It's for this very reason that we convert the exiting motors to 4.0L from 3.8L in the exact same fashion that the factory did via a stroke conversion. I know of 1 person on here currently attempting to do this but if you look at the cost to do a project like this, it would be the world's most expensive Cayman on the road ever.
Just my $.02.
As for the whole "why aren't we getting a 4.0L GT3 motor" question, you have to noodle over the following:
1.) you can't slam a GT3 motor in a 981 because of several fitment reasons, the biggest being the oil sump tank. (required re-engineering of the motor and/or unibody for a car that is really a 2nd step beyond a previous model).
2.) the Siemens SDI 9.1 used to run all 991s/981s will not spin over 8160. The ECU architecture doesn't allow it. (required re-engineering of the ECU platform)
3.) Look at the outright engine costs - a 991. GT3 motor is $75K to buy new; a 4.0L 991.1 911R motor is $98K and a GT4 motor is $45K. (pricepoint would have to be re-engineered and would land at GT3 levels, which is not wanted by people on either side of the table.)
I dont doubt that a 4.0L GT3 motor found its way into a 981 in Weissach at one point or another and while there's no doubt that the resources are there to execute everything listed above in a nanosecond, sometimes it just doesn't make sense. Unfortunately you cant just Mr. Potato Head that motor in that car like you can with a lot of other things. It's for this very reason that we convert the exiting motors to 4.0L from 3.8L in the exact same fashion that the factory did via a stroke conversion. I know of 1 person on here currently attempting to do this but if you look at the cost to do a project like this, it would be the world's most expensive Cayman on the road ever.
Just my $.02.
09-21-2018, 10:54 AM
#3349
Track Day
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I have to say I have become completely bearish about the 718 GT4, its starting to seem like a missed opportunity for Porsche and there's zero guarantee of a RS version. Then again perhaps Porsche are playing with us 
.
The Lotus Exige 430 Cup is starting to take shape again 430BHP/1100kgs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsv4u2rwj0c
The old guy at the wheel is actually very good BTW
GT2RS - 1:12.01
AMG GTR - 1:13.63
Ford GT II - 1:14.23
430 Cup - 1:14.71
.The Lotus Exige 430 Cup is starting to take shape again
430BHP/1100kgs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsv4u2rwj0c
The old guy at the wheel is actually very good BTW
GT2RS - 1:12.01
AMG GTR - 1:13.63
Ford GT II - 1:14.23
430 Cup - 1:14.71
09-21-2018, 01:36 PM
#3350
Burning Brakes
Im curious to know what happened to the bespoke 4.0, since we have whoopsy and footsoldier who both were shown the final car apparently and reported the same thing. 4.0 with 420hp. I suppose we'll never know!
09-21-2018, 03:20 PM
#3351
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But you can bank on it being PDK only like all it's RS big brothers...
The GT4RS is still a wet dream however at this point.
09-21-2018, 04:40 PM
#3352
09-21-2018, 05:17 PM
#3354
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who could share his thoughts to:
3.8l in the Racecar because (homologation?) base stays 981 GT4?
because 718 GT4 is getting a 16V Turbo.
last minute decission. because scared: price, taxes, emissions,... and moneycow RS short after with 4.0N/A. (RS maybe not)
...
clearly we know the 16V Turbo got also tested and exists.
3.8l in the Racecar because (homologation?) base stays 981 GT4?
because 718 GT4 is getting a 16V Turbo.
last minute decission. because scared: price, taxes, emissions,... and moneycow RS short after with 4.0N/A. (RS maybe not)
...
clearly we know the 16V Turbo got also tested and exists.
09-21-2018, 07:22 PM
#3355
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who could share his thoughts to:
3.8l in the Racecar because (homologation?) base stays 981 GT4?
because 718 GT4 is getting a 16V Turbo.
last minute decission. because scared: price, taxes, emissions,... and moneycow RS short after with 4.0N/A. (RS maybe not)
...
clearly we know the 16V Turbo got also tested and exists.
3.8l in the Racecar because (homologation?) base stays 981 GT4?
because 718 GT4 is getting a 16V Turbo.
last minute decission. because scared: price, taxes, emissions,... and moneycow RS short after with 4.0N/A. (RS maybe not)
...
clearly we know the 16V Turbo got also tested and exists.
Turbo 4 cly myth has sailed away along time ago.
Porsche have been testing 3.8L, 4.0L, 4.0L GT3 and 4 cyl turbo in a 718 GT4 mule for data etc.... not for production purposes.
09-21-2018, 09:58 PM
#3356
Hi BGB, could you please post the dyno graphs for the 991GTS, OEM GT4 and GT4 with X51. It would be very helpful.
09-22-2018, 12:36 AM
#3357
GT4 7000 RPM - 375HP
GTS 7000 RPM - 407HP
4LX51 7000 RPM - 420HP
GT4 6000 RPM - 354HP
GTS 6000 RPM - 363HP
4LX51 6000 RPM - 371HP
GT4 5000 RPM - 295HP
GTS 5000 RPM - 295HP
4LX51 5000 RPM - 309HP
Struggling to generate any excitement............
The Lotus is a fascinating proposition in this regard e.g. it makes ~ 440Nm of torque plus 430BHP (435PS peak), weighs very little, generates 220kg of downforce and has 18 inch wheels e.g. you can get great choices in rubber.
I agree the fit and finish isn't on par with a Porsche however, from a driver engagement POV and performance POV I'm pretty sure it'll outperform the next GT4 (and by a fair margin if its manual and has the old power kit engine).
Last edited by groundhog; 09-22-2018 at 10:18 PM.
09-22-2018, 03:04 AM
#3358
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
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I had an exige S. Never should have sold it, but I was too crippled to drive it (got better thankfully). If anyone has an 09 S260 for sale in green or black let me know. Simply the most fun car to drive ever and that was with 220hp. With 430hp (albeit with a bit more weight/wheelbase) it must be insane fun. If lotus imported the cup 430, I would be first in line. 100ukp is a steal and fixing them from anything but body damage is not expensive (I had to replace the engine in my Elise and I got a used one with a trans for $2500 — drop a zero from Porsche prices — and I did the swap myself). Part of the big fun of lotus was the short gearing and high redline. You could enjoy more than first and second without going to jail (I have no desire to track). And the interior is perfect. Some buckets and a bunch of nothing else. I don’t need fancy leather or ICE etc.
I want a new convertible (my 993 cab is great, but not fast) and am considering a 718 boxster spyder if I can’t get a 991 speedster to go along with my GT3T, but 3.8 and long gearing makes it sort of meh on it. What are the chances they fit shorter gearing? Is the torque limit of the gearbox the ring and pinion or something else?
I want a new convertible (my 993 cab is great, but not fast) and am considering a 718 boxster spyder if I can’t get a 991 speedster to go along with my GT3T, but 3.8 and long gearing makes it sort of meh on it. What are the chances they fit shorter gearing? Is the torque limit of the gearbox the ring and pinion or something else?
09-23-2018, 12:23 PM
#3360
If they save a 4.0L X51 for the RS with PDK wouldn't they choose to use this engine in the new CS race car to have a competitive edge from the start?
If I have to guess, whatever engine the CS has that's what we will get....can't wait for our fellow CS racers to get their hands on the CS and share more info.
If we get a 3.8L X51 and the race car has a 4.0L odds are the RS could happen.
If I have to guess, whatever engine the CS has that's what we will get....can't wait for our fellow CS racers to get their hands on the CS and share more info.
If we get a 3.8L X51 and the race car has a 4.0L odds are the RS could happen.